The bottom line is I'd expect to pay several thousand dollars to hunt another state. If you're planning on hunting any western state, you've obviously saved up or have the means to do so...that's all there is to it. To also argue and to get upset about increasing resident licenses from $12 to $25 doesn't hold much water with me. That's a couple packs of cigarettes and a six pack of beer to most. Nobody chose your occupation for you. If you're struggling over a $25 elk tag you need to reevaluate your life choices and maybe not hunt that year. Just my two cents.
Screwing over the Non-resident (or not)?
- Thread starter Big Fin
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Deleted member 16014
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Th vast majority of my best hunting friends and partners are non-residents in wy, and it’s not close. It’s not about us vs them. It’s about how stuff works vs. a highly and easily offended minority of the minority.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Pretty much the same story for Montana and Wyoming. I found old Montana regulations back to the 50's on-line.
@JM77 has regulations back to the late 70's IIRC, for Wyoming.
Things haven't changed that much with the exception of more easy access to applying and information about specific units.
These new age bro hunter wannabe's would have never left their home states without the massive amounts of information found on-line.
@JM77 has regulations back to the late 70's IIRC, for Wyoming.
Things haven't changed that much with the exception of more easy access to applying and information about specific units.
These new age bro hunter wannabe's would have never left their home states without the massive amounts of information found on-line.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Totally agree, I'm all for raising Resident fees in Wyoming.
I'm pretty sure a Montana Resident can buy an elk tag, deer tag, and a deer b tag and still have $12 left for a good 6 pack...for what Wyoming Residents pay for just an elk tag.
Up to Montana to raise the fees if they want to on Residents, I'm sure we're going to see Resident fee increases here, and why not?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yeah, but that was back before the .gov was treading on everybody and taking away rights.
So....
that's pretty wild.
but hey, at least if the state doesn't ask me i still tell somebody i killed something... so, that counts right?
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NR allocated 15% of the draw permits at a time when total harvest was sub 9000 now harvest is 40,425.
Total CO Population 1958: 1,667,000
Total CO Population 2024: 5,877,610
As a CO resident, I appreciate that I can hunt with friends and family from out of state every year if I so choose. Still much to be improved, however.
That being said, for those NRs that are banging the table the loudest for "ample opportunity", I think you should clarify your stance because I believe you are being disingenuous.
How about this scenario: Only residents can hunt Bull Elk, Deer and Antelope Bucks. But in exchange, Non-Resident tags for Cow elk and doe Pronghorn and Deer are state-wide. As a result, a non-resident can hunt Elk in Dinosaur National every year, they could hunt pronghorn out of the Victory Inn in Maybell or down on the southern border whenever they want, and deer hunt in the best Mullie hills in the world.
Problem solved? Didn't think so.
These arguments are really about access, at the lowest cost possible, to the highest quality LE trophy animals. Gotta get that grip 'n grin on Instagram, and put those horns on the wall, it has nothing to do with hunting tags and access in its broadest sense.
That being said, for those NRs that are banging the table the loudest for "ample opportunity", I think you should clarify your stance because I believe you are being disingenuous.
How about this scenario: Only residents can hunt Bull Elk, Deer and Antelope Bucks. But in exchange, Non-Resident tags for Cow elk and doe Pronghorn and Deer are state-wide. As a result, a non-resident can hunt Elk in Dinosaur National every year, they could hunt pronghorn out of the Victory Inn in Maybell or down on the southern border whenever they want, and deer hunt in the best Mullie hills in the world.
Problem solved? Didn't think so.
These arguments are really about access, at the lowest cost possible, to the highest quality LE trophy animals. Gotta get that grip 'n grin on Instagram, and put those horns on the wall, it has nothing to do with hunting tags and access in its broadest sense.
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Wouldn’t be long and they could pre-fill out the “I did not kill an animal” box.Right because in Wyoming, your favorite state to complain about, we "only" allow NR's to get over 50% of pronghorn tags, apply for any leftovers
Statewide tags for cows or does would be poor game management. You’d need to make it unit specific with quotas or easy to access herds would be reduced significantly.
The solution to this whole problem is a severe recession. Remember this as you vote in November. Which candidate will mess up the economy the worse! It’s a tough choice.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
Yeah, because that's what I bet Bozeman needs is homeless people...
Oh Buzzard. Looks like a decline to me. It was on it's way down, then it got a Covid bump as every outdoor activity did. What do these numbers show you? I'd consider it a decline. I bet in a couple more years when the Covid onset hunters give up, it'll continue on a downward trend.
I know it would be poor management - it was absurd on its face, that wasn't my point. There is plenty of hunting opportunity for residents and non-residents, just not trophy opportunities. This is all about horns not hunting.
BuzzH
Well-known member
100% agree and I'll add absolutely nothing to do with advocating for wildlife, conservation, and public lands....absolutely nothing.
Bare minimum cash outlay and effort, for taking all they can. They're like blisters, show up after the work is already done.
KingOfTagSoup
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Ultimately this R v NR debate will be completely irrelevant if we can find a way to drastically grow herd sizes. I for one will gladly support anything that will help make this happen. And that's one criticism of management practices here in the east. The status quo has kind of become "shoot more does! Shoot more does! Fewer deer equals bigger bucks!" Personally I would rather see an abundance of average bucks than a 180" buck and that be the only deer I see. Maybe that seems nuts but I value an abundance of game. I'm sure there are plenty of elk hunters who would rather go out and hear a dozen five points bugling than only one 7 point. Cut tags to help a recovering herd? I'm for it. Cut antlerless tags to boost population? I'm for it. Cut NR OTC? I don't like it but if it grows the herd I'm for it. Hell I'd hunt with my thumb up my tush if you could show me evidence it would grow the herd (satire of course 
)
)BuzzH
Well-known member
From my statistical view it looks like fluctuations in available licenses...not a decline in hunter numbers. LQ elk tag numbers are variable depending on management goals, some years more are issued, some years less are issued depending on biological and social reasons.
Also, active hunters just means those that actually hunted with their tag(s) has nothing to do with total hunter numbers.
For example, I buy pronghorn doe tags and pitch them in the trash (I was not an active hunter in the Stats). Same for my wife, who will buy general elk, general deer, pronghorn buck and doe tags to support the GF but pitches them in the trash can as well. (not an active hunter in the Stats either).
I would also tend to draw the conclusion that with such small fluctuations in both licenses issued AND active hunters, Wyoming is doing a good job of elk/hunter management. Managing in peaks and valleys is, IMO, mismanagement...albeit, sometimes unavoidable due to things out of managers control (weather, disease, etc.)
Nice try...a c- to d+ effort at proving your "point".
I would say the amount of fluctuations you're seeing is also within the SD of the sample size, based on confidence interval of the model.
That's my take, but I do tend to put more than a 2 minute google search worth of thought into hunting, wildlife management, etc. But, hey, that's just me.
While on statistics, you're statistically irrelevant to anything that goes on in Wyoming.
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rjthehunter
Well-known member
In my case, I couldn't care less about access to the highest quality LE tags. I'd forego those tags to have more general opportunities. I would love to be able to plan to go back to the same area every year or two to hunt on a general tag. It doesn't take a LE unit to kill a nice bull.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
A fluctuation in available licenses?? Your general elk tag doesn't fluctuate in availability from year to year Buzz. Plus, this is just elk. This isn't pronghorn or deer. This is only elk hunters.
Lastly, yes, active hunters are people in the field hunting for elk. That number is declining. Someone who buys their tag and throws it away isn't an active hunter.
It still means the number of active resident hunters is declining... Nice try at discrediting "your" states stats.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Point out in the stats you posted the breakdown of general elk tags sold to residents. Please try to comprehend your own tables there Chief.
You posted statewide TOTAL statistics for ALL elk tags, of which each hunter here can have 3. Which include general AND LQ tags issued.
Sure, very possible to have significantly less R general tags sold from year to year as LQ elk tags increase.
For instance, I didn't buy a general elk tag this year, I drew a LQ any elk tag. Don't forget, Residents can only have one antlered or any elk tag per year. I can't have a LQ elk tag AND a general tags, its one or the other. Which, let me break out the crayons, means that as more Residents draw LQ elk tags, they purchase less general tags. So, yes, general R elk tag sales are going to fluctuate.
So, no, the only thing you've proven is how little you know about both statistics and elk management here.
Active hunters declining/fluctuating from year to year means zippo. There are lots of R elk hunters in Wyoming that buy 3 tags, fill one, and never even bother to hunt the other 2.
Not all elk hunters are created equally, mine get filled, but a majority don't.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Is that based on your vast experience of elk hunting in Wyoming?
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