SB 312 - eliminating outfitter set asides.

[Labman]

I also agree that landowner tags showed only be on private land and not UW.

How does a RO tag help anyone? The fact that a UW tag exists is great, it allows you and the average Joe access to that ground to hunt. If it has to be RO it still comes out of the tag numbers allocated for the unit and now you can’t go on that property. I see so many people advocating for the removal of UW tags and to make them RO, it tells me you don’t understand how the program works. What would be beneficial to the average guy by doing away with UW tags?

 

[Nick87]

How does a RO tag help anyone? The fact that a UW tag exists is great, it allows you and the average Joe access to that ground to hunt. If it has to be RO it still comes out of the tag numbers allocated for the unit and now you can’t go on that property. I see so many people advocating for the removal of UW tags and to make them RO, it tells me you don’t understand how the program works. What would be beneficial to the average guy by doing away with UW tags?

I guess I'm not an "average joe" I dont think I could afford those tags neither could the majority of us.

 

[MTGomer]

I guess I'm not an "average joe" I dont think I could afford those tags neither could the majority of us.

I think what he is saying is that ranches that get unit wide transferable tags must allow some public access on their ranch.

 

[Nick87]

I think what he is saying is that ranches that get unit wide transferable tags must allow some public access on their ranch.

Gotcha

 

[ccc23454]

I think what he is saying is that ranches that get unit wide transferable tags must allow some public access on their ranch.

Some of those are 20 acres....

 

[SaskHunter]

I'm not a fan of these Guide/Outfitter pool only, it's nothing but a monopoly. Whatever this does to draw odds is irrelevant, it opens up more opportunities to DIY guys, even if the overall draw odds lower for the NR pool of applicants. I'm all for this.

 

[SaskHunter]

Some of those are 20 acres....

So you're saying I should buy 20 acres in NM?

 

[Nick87]

So you're saying I should buy 20 acres in NM?

You definitely wouldn't be the first one to do it for landowner tags.

 

[ccc23454]

You definitely wouldn't be the first one to do it for landowner tags.

No kidding i have thought about it, sell a unit wide tag for 8k twice and land is effectively paid for itself. what a joke of a system! The money doesnt go to state and wildlife management it goes to ranches. Some of these zones issue more than a thousand tags between draw and LO tags, way more than herds in same.

 

[Labman]

Some of those are 20 acres....

And unless you have seen some of those properties you shouldn’t discredit them. It might be an irrigated 20 acre piece of alfalfa, or a year round source of water where no other source is available for miles. I know, at face value a 20 acre parcel sounds unattractive but unless you have seen it don’t judge it based on a number. The properties are scored to ensure they provide meaningful benefit to elk and have regular elk use.

 

[Labman]

So you're saying I should buy 20 acres in NM?

Roll the dice, see how it works out. I would make sure it qualifies to be in the program first. Needs to have a regular elk presence and have a meaningful benefit in the form of cover, forage, water, ag, or a combination of those elements. I will help in your search: You won’t find one for $16k.

 

[ccc23454]

And unless you have seen some of those properties you shouldn’t discredit them. It might be an irrigated 20 acre piece of alfalfa, or a year round source of water where no other source is available for miles. I know, at face value a 20 acre parcel sounds unattractive but unless you have seen it don’t judge it based on a number. The properties are scored to ensure they provide meaningful benefit to elk and have regular elk use.

I dont doubt that. My problem (mine) the state give these tags in addition to draw and for benefit of landowners not the elk or hunters. I think state should set tag rate to split with landowner and only if they open their land to public hunting.

So if Bills ranch gets a 1 uw tag under program, state issues tag at lets say$4000 to me, the state then gives Bill $3k and state keeps$1k and Bill allows public hunting on his land for the year.
- Hunters win with access, state wins with funding for management and improvements and land owners are financially compensated for opening there lands.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Let's not forget that states watch what is going on around them. This is a rare move away from privatization of wildlife. Its not just a gain for New Mexican residents. This is a win for many western states who fight against privatization during each legislative session.
Also let's not B.S. people one half of the political spectrum is against all forms of government welfare unless they can figure out how to take advantage of it.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I think I'm on same list. I attached as pics, didnt know how else to attach. My first thoughts were that NR odds are already low. Only really affects the guys playing only in the NR pool. And I agree that guys who are using outfitter pool will probably just buy a landowner tag, if that doesnt get drastically changed. I also agree that landowner tags showed only be on private land and not UW. I thought it kinda funny that they acknowledge how much NR hunting brings to the economy and NR should give more to help out.

My second thought is maybe this is good in the long run for NR in NM(and Montana contemplating, WY same boat-meaning guide needed in wilderness/NR quota). NR lose out for a few years with less tags. Maybe after a few years, the state will see that they need to up the NR tag amounts for the additional revenue. As a resident its easy to think that less non residents is a good thing, but the local businesses will have a different view point. I assume the businesses complaining about a decrease in revenue will have more of an affect in the long run and will persuade the govt to make changes in NR hunting opportunity. That may be just wishful thinking.

That gubment nipple is a tuff wean.

 

[MTGomer]

Some of those are 20 acres....

And access to them blocked by the same landowners separate LLC.

 

[Labman]

And access to them blocked by the same landowners separate LLC.

They have to allow access. If they aren’t allowing it, you report them to the EPLUS manager and they get removed from the program. That simple.

 

[Labman]

My problem (mine) the state give these tags in addition to draw and for benefit of landowners not the elk or hunters.

Yes landowners get a benefit. If you don’t think hunters get a benefit I don’t know what to say. They get the access. Is that not a benefit!? The elk benefit too because the ranch has to qualify by providing a “meaningful benefit” to elk. Those are exact words used in the program application. So, if you say you don’t see the benefit to elk I don’t know what I can say to help you there. Maybe you will have to go check out a 20 acre parcel that has a well on there that fences cattle out while allowing elk a year round source of water to convince you of the benefit.

 

[hearteater]

Anyone who thinks this will improve nonresident draw odds is in for a surprise if this passes. 84% to 90% of tags to residents = less tags for nonresidents

 

[Labman]

Anyone who thinks this will improve nonresident draw odds is in for a surprise if this passes. 84% to 90% of tags to residents = less tags for nonresidents

Anyone who thinks that the support from WildEarth Guardians, Defenders of Wildlife, and the Rio Grande Chapter of the Sierra Club is a coincidence has blinders on.

 

[Khunter]

And unless you have seen some of those properties you shouldn’t discredit them. It might be an irrigated 20 acre piece of alfalfa, or a year round source of water where no other source is available for miles. I know, at face value a 20 acre parcel sounds unattractive but unless you have seen it don’t judge it based on a number. The properties are scored to ensure they provide meaningful benefit to elk and have regular elk use.

I have seen a LOT of them. Many are complete BS. May not be as bad as it was a few years ago when I last had a tag and looked at a lot of laughably inappropriate properties that were awarded LO tags. But it was horrible.