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Salmon get help. [ Credit Bush]

cjcj

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NW salmon get 25% of money for endangered species



Jeff Barnard
Associated Press
Feb. 27, 2006 09:00 AM

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GRANTS PASS, Ore. - Northwest populations of Pacific salmon accounted for one of every four state and federal dollars spent on saving endangered or threatened species during 2004, according to a new report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Government agencies spent $393 million on helping the five Pacific salmon species protected by the Endangered Species Act - chinook, steelhead, coho, sockeye and chum. Total government spending for 1,838 listed species was $1.4 billion, the report said.

And the cost promises to rise. The Bush administration says it will spend $6 billion over the next 10 years to modify eight federally owned hydroelectric dams on the Snake and Columbia rivers to make them less lethal to salmon.
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Cost is increasingly becoming a factor in the debate over how best to restore struggling salmon runs.

"Virtually everyone in the region supports recovery," said Bob Lohn, Northwest regional director of NOAA Fisheries, the federal agency responsible for restoring salmon. "The debate is about the most effective way to get there and whether it can be done as effectively at a lower cost.

"The ESA plainly makes the value decision that not only is it worth it, but we've got to do it," he added. "That decision is made for us."

Salmon compete for water and habitat with hydroelectric dams, irrigation withdrawals, barge transportation, shipping channels, logging, livestock grazing and urban development. And federal plans to minimize the harm from those competing interests in the Columbia Basin - particularly the dams - have yet to get approval from a federal judge making sure they measure up to the demands of the Endangered Species Act.

Reps. Greg Walden, R-Ore., Brian Baird, D-Wash., and Norm Dicks, D-Wash., have held a series of hearings putting more pressure on sport and commercial fishing and hatcheries to contribute.

"Right now it seems like some of this is on autopilot in the region and we're paying a pretty heavy cost," said Walden. "When you add up the costs to the region in cash, jobs, in emotion, we should be making sure we get these little fish out, and when they come back as adults minimize the impediments to reproducing in streams. That includes passage through the hydro system, access to the habitat, and can they swim past the nets and the hooks."

The Bush administration has backed them up with a proposal to reduce the impacts on protected fish from fishing, and has started a comprehensive review of hatcheries - shutting some down if necessary - to be sure they no longer harm protected fish. Scientists have long blamed hatcheries for producing salmon that dilute the gene pool, spread disease, and compete for food and habitat, while being less fit to survive in the wild.

Property rights advocates are suing to delist the 26 separate populations of the five Pacific salmon species, arguing there is no reason to focus recovery efforts on wild fish that spawn in rivers, rather than just replacing them with fish spawned in hatcheries.

"It should raise some questions concerning whether this is the way the American public wants their limited resources directed," said Russell Brooks, an attorney for the Pacific Legal Foundation, which is handling the lawsuits. "Instead, we just keep throwing money hand over fist to protect the salmon that we like, or some people like."

Noting that dams are responsible for killing as much as 80 percent of the young fish migrating to the ocean, salmon advocates argue that efforts to reduce harvests are intended to divert attention from the dams - particularly their proposal to remove four dams on the lower Snake River in Eastern Washington.

They note that NOAA Fisheries said in a 2000 plan that cutting out all fishing would have little effect on listed runs.

American Rivers, a conservation group, estimates that breaching the four dams on the Snake would cost up to $4 billion over the next 10 years, compared to the $6 billion the Bush administration is spending on modifications to help juvenile fish get around the dams.

The $2 billion saved could go to upgrading railroads to take the place of barges that haul grain to Portland, and developing wind power and energy conservation to replace the 1,200 megawatts produced by the dams, said American Rivers spokesman Michael Garrity.

The first salmon on the endangered list was the Snake River sockeye in 1991, which has dwindled to a few fish returning each year. A few more runs were protected in the early 1990s, then the floodgates opened in the late 1990s. One, Oregon coastal coho, has been taken off the list by court action, and NOAA Fisheries decided against putting it back based on Oregon's protection efforts.

Now, six of the eight most expensive salmon efforts are in the Columbia Basin in Washington, Oregon and Idaho. They are Snake River spring/summer chinook, Snake River steelhead, middle Columbia River steelhead, Snake River fall chinook, upper Columbia River spring chinook, and Snake River sockeye. The other two are Puget Sound chinook and coho in the Klamath Mountains of southern Oregon and Northern California.

In 2001, accounting methods were changed to include as a salmon cost the electrical power sales lost to the Bonneville Power Administration because it spilled water rather than killing young salmon by running them through turbines. With the accounting change, the calculated amount spent on salmon leaped 20 percent, from $240.8 million in 2000 to $300.3 million in 2001.

Salmon advocates argue that the accounting change paints a biased picture, assuming that BPA owns all the water in the river and can do what it likes with it.

"It misleads the public, it misleads Congress, and it's part of their annual ritual of underestimating the need and overestimating the expenses," said Charles Hudson, spokesman for the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission.

But Lohn said including the forgone hydroelectric revenue helps the public and Congress choose how it wants its money spent.

"It would be simple if it was just about the salmon," said Walden. "But it's not."
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cjcj,

Why would you credit Bush with spending more to do less?

He doesnt have a plan, read the article. They've already tried all kinds of techno fixes to get smolt downstream, they dont work, none of them.

In true Bush fashion, dont find solutions, just continue to spend money like a drunken sailor.
 
Thanks for posting the article CJ.

I agree with you Buzz.

The Bush Administration is too scared to make the right decision to breach the dams because of politics. Most of the farmers that ship their grain are die-hard republicans and I think Bush is afraid of pissing them off. The farmers are very much against breaching.

When I was pheasant hunting a couple years ago in the Palouse, the elections were going on and all the people that were elected promised to fight breaching the dams.

I hope that modifying the dams really does work but I'm sure it won't work and the dams will probably end up needing breached someday anyway. Might as well breach them sooner rather than later.
 
BuzzH said:
cjcj,

Why would you credit Bush with spending more to do less?

He doesnt have a plan, read the article. They've already tried all kinds of techno fixes to get smolt downstream, they dont work, none of them.

In true Bush fashion, dont find solutions, just continue to spend money like a drunken sailor.

They throw money at the public school system too,

Well its sad that thats what they do [feds] they throw money at the problem without fixing the "root cause"...Maybe someone should show them how to work a cause and effect chart, or a fishbone, pareto,etc.

I am ignorant as to how to fix the Salmon issue, but Buzz if The Dubya adm. had cut funding wouldn`t you and others be crying foul?

I can`t think of anything that the feds run very well.... But at least there is money out there. to work with.....Get the Experts to work together for a viable cost effective solution.....but give Dubya" credit for putting up the funds.
 
cjcj,

When have I ever said its a good idea to waste money on turbine screens, trucking smolt, etc.?

I've been pretty clear in my thoughts on that, its a waste of time, effort, and money. It hasnt worked, it wont work, and never will work. Theres already been well over 1 billion spent on ridiculous ideas like those that Bush is proposing.

This administrations refusal to even understand the problem is nearly as laughable as their approach of throwing more money at it. When you have flat tires on a vehicle, you dont replace the engine.

The experts have worked on this issue well in excess of 10 years, the science is there, the facts are in, theres no longer a debate. In case you're wondering the only people not "working together" on this are Bush and his Administration. The other players across a broad range of state, federal and tribal authorities are all in agreement and have been working together for years. The cheapest and ONLY way to get the runs off the list is to breach dams, and that is a fact. The hopes of the Bush Administration is that the issue will go away once the runs are extinct. They couldnt care less about salmon or steelhead.

In my opinion if all they're going to do is continue down the path of flawed policy, poor decisions, costly fixes that have failed miserably, ignore court orders, ignore treaties, ignore professional biologists from dozens of agencies, ignore science, and absolutely live in denial of the real problems (dams)...we'd be better off giving that money to bums on the streets.

I'm not going to thank Bush for burying us in more debt when theirs obviously no logic applied to where he's spending that money. This is just another classic example of his fiscal irresponsibility that he's used his entire life, from baseball owner, oilman, Governor, and now President. The dude is incapable of logical thought. He'd do more good on this issue if he just prayed for the salmon...

Bush is a tool.
 
Good reply Buzz, So should Dubya withdraw these funds?or is there a way to get the funding to the right agency`s to get the job done?
 
CJ,

If the withdrawl of funds could be put to good use...yes.

But, from his track record, he'd just spend it in pursuit of WMD's in Iraq, teaching "intelligent" design to school kids, spying on his fellow Americans, dolling it out in tax breaks to the wealthy, corporate welfare, and all the rest of his flawed little pet projects.

Obviously, you've never been involved in the beautiful world of politics in regard to correct environmental practices. What agency is capable of cutting through the ugliness of partisan politics, a President that admits he doesnt like to read, and an Administration that doesnt care about correct management?

When you find that agency...please let us all know.
 
CJ,
You might want to check, but I think these funds you are bragging about are actually a decrease over what was previously budgeted. Dubya had to do some funny accounting like his Enron buddies to count some things that were previously not associated with recovery.
 
.... admit it, the money could be better spent trading cigarettes & liquor vouchers for democratic votes in Florida.
Thanks for the dissertation Buzz...enlightening yet slanted as always.
 
American Rivers, a conservation group, estimates that breaching the four dams on the Snake would cost up to $4 billion over the next 10 years, compared to the $6 billion the Bush administration is spending on modifications to help juvenile fish get around the dams.

The $2 billion saved could go to upgrading railroads to take the place of barges that haul grain to Portland, and developing wind power and energy conservation to replace the 1,200 megawatts produced by the dams, said American Rivers spokesman Michael Garrity.

The American Rivers statements above from the posted article seem to make a lot of sense.
 
Curly... if they could get that plan locked into a ironclad contract it sounds great...hump

Yes Buzz its true i have no exposure to the politics in the area of conservasion.:cool:

Jose, you stated that this money is a decrease from last year... is that good or bad? since as Buzz stated its going for an unworkable plan?:confused:
 
Michael Garrity was the head of a Missoula based tree hugger group. Must have changed jobs or is now moon lighting for another enviro organization. No agenda with that guy!

Hey Buzz. Airhead America went T. U. in Missoula. The station is now playing 80's hair band music. Even in your liberal home town that lefty drivel you like to repeat over and over again to your flock, is not selling. Give it up!
 
Hey BHR,

You're getting as bad as cheese...try to stay on topic. Not sure what a discussion about salmon has to do with your choice in music???

NHY,

Slanted? Hows that?

There isnt much slant in my replies. The agencies involved are all in agreement on what needs to happen to restore salmon. They can throw 20 billion more at turbine screens and it wont make any difference in salmon numbers. That IS NOT the problem.

If you're referring to my comments about how Bush has sunk this country in a quaqmire of debt...take his side and prove he's not done just that. Not sure how the largest debt in the history of the U.S. is a "slant".

Why is it everytime the facts are on the table, its a slant with you? Maybe Bush isnt the only guy from Texas that doesnt like to read...
 
Buzz, are you attempting to impugn my reading skills because I say you sound like Billary Clinton?

No sense in reading your segues...the next rant will be the same as the last..no matter the subject or the facts.
 
NHY,

I'm attempting to impugn your reading skills because you seem to lack comprehension.

As to the facts, what part about the issue of salmon that I posted do you think is not a fact?

I guess you think Bush is doing a good job on salmon....on Iraq....on the national debt....on selling our ports to UAE....on stripping civil rights via Patriot Act....on catching Bin Laden.....on appointing competent people to FEMA....etc. etc. etc.

The salmon issue is another on the long list of poor decisions, misguided management, and his lack of listening to people that really do know what the problems and solutions are. Whenever Bush hits a road block...call the U.S. treasury and fire up the presses, that will make people happy.

I used to believe that Republicans were fiscally responsible...pretty entertaining that the Wichita Falls Republican is getting schooled about fiscal responsibility by an Independent from Wyoming.

Come on NHY, prove that I'm wrong...oh thats right...you cant because the truth is just too painful.
 
On the salmon...I take your word on the facts. I know your world doesn't exist beyond hunt, fish, & hate Bush.
You school me with your liberal drivel? Turn off your black light & snuff out the incense Buzz. Independent my ass. Have another sip of Shumer & Co.'s kool-aid.
 
nhy, You keep getting challenged to defend Dubya and all you do is dodge. Can you defend him on any of these issues?

"I guess you think Bush is doing a good job on salmon....on Iraq....on the national debt....on selling our ports to UAE....on stripping civil rights via Patriot Act....on catching Bin Laden.....on appointing competent people to FEMA....etc. etc. etc."
 
NHY,

You bet I'm an Indepedent, why would a liberal demand fiscal responsiblity? Last I checked liberal usually means liberal...as in "Bush is liberally spending our money on foolishness and I support him...therefore as a liberal...I like his liberal use of our tax dollars".

I understand how you would be confused as the GOP is said to be Conservative...as in..."Bush should be conservative with our tax dollars and not waste money on flawed science and ineffective turbine screens on dams". But that really isnt a reality any more is it?

So, how do you explain that my demanding fiscal responsibility is liberal?...while conservative Mr. Wichita Falls defends his boys drunken sailor mentality?

Yeah, sure, I'm a liberal. Just one that believes in the U.S. Constitution, fiscal responsibility, correct management, etc.

Apparently the "conservatives" in the whitehouse, as well as those found in Wichita Falls, have forgotten how to act.
 
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