Dinkshooter
Well-known member
Figures, like I said Local redneck hunting rumor mill. Did you hear the one about the 520 bull out of the Clearwater?
Happy to eat crow when facts are provided.
RMEF? Waste of money?
- Thread starter Bambistew
- Start date
Figures, like I said Local redneck hunting rumor mill. Did you hear the one about the 520 bull out of the Clearwater?
Happy to eat crow when facts are provided.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
You calling me a liar? Bite me. I was there - public access across state land before, locked gate now.
elk_hunter
Active member
Not many old or older people can afford a $16k hunt!
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Ravalli county Montana is one of the fastest growing counties in the state. Back in 1991 one of the biggest ranches left, The Stock Farm,(22,000 acres) was up for sale after the death of the previous owner the great niece of Marcus Daly.
Anyway the RMEF was contacted and there statement at that time was we're not going buy up land in a the Bitterroot Valley as it's already shot in the butt. I remember saying "Yea you wouldn't want to save what's threatened the most first would ya".
It was for sale for something close to 7.1 Million dollars, and Harold Mildenberger and associates bought it. They then sold the timber off it for something around 3 million, a chunk for a wealthy development to Charles Swab for like 4 million, and then the RMEF came in gave him 4.2 mills to keep him from developing the rest more than 4 ways. Other than a conservation easement they got nothing. They could have bought the whole thing for just 3.1 more and got reimbursed by the state and it would have been public and preserved for elk for ever.. Me thinks members got duped there. Maybe a bit of corruption also.. At the RMEF banquet the Mildenbergers where toasted for being great conservationist for protecting the land. They are local Bitterroot born people and they didn't need or want to develop it anymore anyway.
Anyway the RMEF was contacted and there statement at that time was we're not going buy up land in a the Bitterroot Valley as it's already shot in the butt. I remember saying "Yea you wouldn't want to save what's threatened the most first would ya".
It was for sale for something close to 7.1 Million dollars, and Harold Mildenberger and associates bought it. They then sold the timber off it for something around 3 million, a chunk for a wealthy development to Charles Swab for like 4 million, and then the RMEF came in gave him 4.2 mills to keep him from developing the rest more than 4 ways. Other than a conservation easement they got nothing. They could have bought the whole thing for just 3.1 more and got reimbursed by the state and it would have been public and preserved for elk for ever.. Me thinks members got duped there. Maybe a bit of corruption also.. At the RMEF banquet the Mildenbergers where toasted for being great conservationist for protecting the land. They are local Bitterroot born people and they didn't need or want to develop it anymore anyway.
DRAFTSTUD
Well-known member
I must say I have supported the RMEF for many years and some of the info is disturbing. That being said "What do you do?" As a Hunter far away from the fight the only way I learn this stuff is by reading everyone's remarks. Thanks, John
Hntnhrd
Member
SS how about the lastest deal with the Darby Lumber sections that were in holdings in the National forest? There were 19 sections of land. The FS was in the process of trying to purchase them. Appropriations were bogged down in congress (BIG SHOCK) Barret who owns the CB ranch (CEO of INTELL) swwoops in gets the sellers to back out of the countract and sell to him.
So he owns these sections and offers to trade them for 3 1/2 sections that border his ranch. SOUNDS GREAT RIGHT? Well the three sections he wants are about the best habitat in the whole deer mountain area. the 19 sections have a total of 4 trees on them as the were burnt to a crisp in 2000. The 3.5 sections also have the roads that access about 12 more sections and the hrad of the Litlle sleeping child drainage. The ELk Foundation was 100% behind this land swap. When I called the head office to voice my concerns the woman in the lands dept had no idea what I was talking about. THERE HAD ONLY BEEN 4 ARTICLES ABOUT IT IN THE MISSOULIAN IN THE PREVIOUS TWO WEEKS. So she had the area rep call me back. He stated how great this deal was 19 sections of land for 3.5. When I asked if he had ever set foot on any of this land so he could see the difference he said no. He kept going back to the NUMBERS. urghhhhhh
FOr Now barret has left the roads open to access the other sections but that could always change.
Great deal to consolidate some inholdings ( by the way that anyone could still hunt on if they wanted) but horrible deal for the area hunters. I know of a couple real good 270 (area) bucks that came off those three sections.
I really hope this new president is the start of alot of changes but I not holding my breath.
So he owns these sections and offers to trade them for 3 1/2 sections that border his ranch. SOUNDS GREAT RIGHT? Well the three sections he wants are about the best habitat in the whole deer mountain area. the 19 sections have a total of 4 trees on them as the were burnt to a crisp in 2000. The 3.5 sections also have the roads that access about 12 more sections and the hrad of the Litlle sleeping child drainage. The ELk Foundation was 100% behind this land swap. When I called the head office to voice my concerns the woman in the lands dept had no idea what I was talking about. THERE HAD ONLY BEEN 4 ARTICLES ABOUT IT IN THE MISSOULIAN IN THE PREVIOUS TWO WEEKS. So she had the area rep call me back. He stated how great this deal was 19 sections of land for 3.5. When I asked if he had ever set foot on any of this land so he could see the difference he said no. He kept going back to the NUMBERS. urghhhhhh
FOr Now barret has left the roads open to access the other sections but that could always change.
Great deal to consolidate some inholdings ( by the way that anyone could still hunt on if they wanted) but horrible deal for the area hunters. I know of a couple real good 270 (area) bucks that came off those three sections.
I really hope this new president is the start of alot of changes but I not holding my breath.
drahthaar
Active member
Well shoot, I am a member and a committee member. Everyone on our committee is or was a working stiff, with their heart in the right place. Bambi, I think your question is a good one, and BTW, I just like seeing a RMEF thread that isn't about wolves, even if its getting slammed. I won't claim to know much about what Htnhard talked about, I am sure he is right. I try to ask the state chairs and committee chairs some tough questions and get frustrated myself. But, the bottom line is, the west is under fire from development, winter range is being chunked up faster than anyone could possibly know. If my little bit of time and money can curb this, I feel good about the RMEF.
Look guys, the RMEF is a relatively young organization, when compared to the likes of DU. There is always going to be growing pains with anything like this. It doesn't do any good for hunters to sit on the sideline and get upset at orgs like this, as long as they are giving rifles and hunts away at the banquets, they are on the good side, no? Bunny huggers are joining groups like the Sierra Club, PETA, and Defenders of Wildlife by the droves. Orgs. that are geared toward hunting need everyone's help. I can't sit here and rattle off all the purchases and land swap they have made, but many are good AND open to the public, like the elkhorn project. They bought that literally hours before a developer that would have chunked that up into ranchettes. Was it near me? NO. But it still made me feel like the little bit o cash and time I have given was worth it. That ranch you all are talking about is always going to be a point of contention, but land isn't getting cheaper so I feel they have no choice but to sell some high dollar hunts, if it gets winter range protected, its worth it. The FS is doing a absolute chitty job of managing our forestlands, pressure on land and wildlife is building by the year out here, its dire, IMHO.
If there is something you guys should be looking hard at, its Plum Creek timber CO, they are the largest landowner in the US, and they are raping their lands and then selling them off. Soon to be known as Plum Creek Real Estate Co. They have land checkerboarded all over with FS land, so you can see where this is going. I wish the elk foundation had the membership and dollars coming in to buy up that land.
And one more thing about the building. Yes it cost a bundle. But the money that built it, was raised and earmarked for the building through special fund raising opportunities, money from memberships and banquets didn't build it. Plus, a ton of it was donated, labor, materials, landscaping. The mortgage left over on it is less than they were paying in rent at the other decrepit building. And now, they have a very big piece of collateral to put towards land purchases.
Look guys, the RMEF is a relatively young organization, when compared to the likes of DU. There is always going to be growing pains with anything like this. It doesn't do any good for hunters to sit on the sideline and get upset at orgs like this, as long as they are giving rifles and hunts away at the banquets, they are on the good side, no? Bunny huggers are joining groups like the Sierra Club, PETA, and Defenders of Wildlife by the droves. Orgs. that are geared toward hunting need everyone's help. I can't sit here and rattle off all the purchases and land swap they have made, but many are good AND open to the public, like the elkhorn project. They bought that literally hours before a developer that would have chunked that up into ranchettes. Was it near me? NO. But it still made me feel like the little bit o cash and time I have given was worth it. That ranch you all are talking about is always going to be a point of contention, but land isn't getting cheaper so I feel they have no choice but to sell some high dollar hunts, if it gets winter range protected, its worth it. The FS is doing a absolute chitty job of managing our forestlands, pressure on land and wildlife is building by the year out here, its dire, IMHO.
If there is something you guys should be looking hard at, its Plum Creek timber CO, they are the largest landowner in the US, and they are raping their lands and then selling them off. Soon to be known as Plum Creek Real Estate Co. They have land checkerboarded all over with FS land, so you can see where this is going. I wish the elk foundation had the membership and dollars coming in to buy up that land.
And one more thing about the building. Yes it cost a bundle. But the money that built it, was raised and earmarked for the building through special fund raising opportunities, money from memberships and banquets didn't build it. Plus, a ton of it was donated, labor, materials, landscaping. The mortgage left over on it is less than they were paying in rent at the other decrepit building. And now, they have a very big piece of collateral to put towards land purchases.
MT. LIFE MEMBER
New member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 2
consevation easments
I am a life member who believes RMEF is doing a fair job of managing the "DONATED" funds. I would realy like to see a list of the conservation easments aquired by RMEF and see how many of those allow public access. Is this public knowledge or not. The donator of the ranch in NM. probably had contingent rules about the future use of the property. If RMEF locked up FS land or state property by getting this land I disagree with that. NM. seems to be a hi priced hunt since I can remember lets hope MT. doesn't follow in their footstep I like to see MT. remain the last best place in the lower 48.
I am a life member who believes RMEF is doing a fair job of managing the "DONATED" funds. I would realy like to see a list of the conservation easments aquired by RMEF and see how many of those allow public access. Is this public knowledge or not. The donator of the ranch in NM. probably had contingent rules about the future use of the property. If RMEF locked up FS land or state property by getting this land I disagree with that. NM. seems to be a hi priced hunt since I can remember lets hope MT. doesn't follow in their footstep I like to see MT. remain the last best place in the lower 48.MT. LIFE MEMBER
New member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 2
consevation easments
I am a life member who believes RMEF is doing a fair job of managing the "DONATED" funds. I would realy like to see a list of the conservation easments aquired by RMEF and see how many of those allow public access. Is this public knowledge or not. The donator of the ranch in NM. probably had contingent rules about the future use of the property. If RMEF locked up FS land or state property by getting this land I disagree with that. NM. seems to be a hi priced hunt since I can remember lets hope MT. doesn't follow in their footstep I like to see MT. remain the last best place in the lower 48.
I am a life member who believes RMEF is doing a fair job of managing the "DONATED" funds. I would realy like to see a list of the conservation easments aquired by RMEF and see how many of those allow public access. Is this public knowledge or not. The donator of the ranch in NM. probably had contingent rules about the future use of the property. If RMEF locked up FS land or state property by getting this land I disagree with that. NM. seems to be a hi priced hunt since I can remember lets hope MT. doesn't follow in their footstep I like to see MT. remain the last best place in the lower 48.
JoseCuervo
New member
You might want to learn whaat the Environmental Groups are doing, before you view them as the enemy. They are working to improve the Public Lands so hunters can access land that is great habitat for wild game. They are also suing the hell out of irresponsible ranchers that are doing things on their private lands that hurt wild game.
I will always prefer sending $$$$ to a group that actually protects our Public Lands and our Wild Game than a group that chooses to buy private lands and sell $16k hunts off them.
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
Naw, how about just full of chit
I thought state land was accessible in New Mexico like it is in Wyoming?
Funny again how everyone can get on here and find one little reason not to send their 35 bucks to them. Then they get pissed because the RMEF tries to chase other groups of people who are not cheap fuggs. Never happy.
drahthaar
Active member
What they are doing up here is causing all kinds of problems for the FS, smart guy. You need to get a clue. You must be a member. Lawsuits upon lawsuits, they are obstructionists, pure and simple. Don't let the names fool you.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
drauhthaar,
Ignore Jose's big chunk of stink bait. He never means anything he says....just likes to stir the pot.
I'm not a member of RMEF but am very involved with FNAWS. Right now FNAWS is in a pissing match with the Grand Slam Club. The big loser in it all is the SHEEP. No org is perfect and the're only as good as it's members. Keep it up. The in fighting among hunters will be the end of us.
BTW drahthaar is right, Plum Creek is liguidating a lot of their holdings, and now is the time to put up if we want to keep it accessable to all hunters. Get involved now, or don't whine when it's too late.
Ignore Jose's big chunk of stink bait. He never means anything he says....just likes to stir the pot.
I'm not a member of RMEF but am very involved with FNAWS. Right now FNAWS is in a pissing match with the Grand Slam Club. The big loser in it all is the SHEEP. No org is perfect and the're only as good as it's members. Keep it up. The in fighting among hunters will be the end of us.
BTW drahthaar is right, Plum Creek is liguidating a lot of their holdings, and now is the time to put up if we want to keep it accessable to all hunters. Get involved now, or don't whine when it's too late.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Dink - you can access across state land right up to the locked gate. The other side of the gate used to be state land, but a land swap with the Double H/RMEF took about a 1/4 mile strip of state land that butted up against the NF away. You can look across that 1/4 mile strip into the NF and often see elk grazing. Or being shot by the $16,000 hunters.... Believe me, the employees of the ranch know all about the old access and keep a close eye on it to make sure that no one trespasses from state land onto their private preserve.
I saw a group of 5 muley bucks up in those canyons, none of which were under 26 inches wide, while following a big bull. That was a month or so before escrow closed on the land swap. Also saw several herds of elk and some pretty decent bulls. Can't get to them now.
Believe me, the employees of the ranch know all about the old access and keep a close eye on it to make sure that no one trespasses from state land onto their private preserve. I saw a group of 5 muley bucks up in those canyons, none of which were under 26 inches wide, while following a big bull. That was a month or so before escrow closed on the land swap. Also saw several herds of elk and some pretty decent bulls. Can't get to them now.
drahthaar
Active member
Hntnhrd
Member
drahthaar your right as a young organization they are going to make some mistakes and shouldn't be condemed for that. And I hope they shake it out and start back on the right track.
Also correct about plum creek. If I remeber right from some of your past posts your up in the flathead. I have a cabin up on rogers lake west of Kalispell. There are three sections of stateland about 9 of FS and all the rest up there is plum creek. They whole mountain on the other side of the lake has been cleaned off in the past couple years. Still tons of game and public access so it is great. But the problem is they sold 560 acres last year about mile in form highway 2 . It is now been split and being marketed as Canyon Creek Ranches. Few elk some moose and mostly whitetail country. Would have been a great acquisition for hunters.
On another note I saw an add on Tv this morning For "FOOTLOOSE Montana" it was an antitrapping add and there goal is to keep public lands trap free. My quess is it was started by the dingdong whose dog ( little lap dog) was killed in a conibear trap near one of the trail heads last year. It is sad, I have three dogs, but now all public lands need to be trap free?? All public lands should stay multi use, period dog walkers trappers hunters and hikers should all have a right to use it and one group shouldn't infirnge on the other. Trappers aren't asking the dog walkers to not use the FS and it should go the other way too.
Carry on I am done ranting for the day!!!!
Also correct about plum creek. If I remeber right from some of your past posts your up in the flathead. I have a cabin up on rogers lake west of Kalispell. There are three sections of stateland about 9 of FS and all the rest up there is plum creek. They whole mountain on the other side of the lake has been cleaned off in the past couple years. Still tons of game and public access so it is great. But the problem is they sold 560 acres last year about mile in form highway 2 . It is now been split and being marketed as Canyon Creek Ranches. Few elk some moose and mostly whitetail country. Would have been a great acquisition for hunters.
On another note I saw an add on Tv this morning For "FOOTLOOSE Montana" it was an antitrapping add and there goal is to keep public lands trap free. My quess is it was started by the dingdong whose dog ( little lap dog) was killed in a conibear trap near one of the trail heads last year. It is sad, I have three dogs, but now all public lands need to be trap free?? All public lands should stay multi use, period dog walkers trappers hunters and hikers should all have a right to use it and one group shouldn't infirnge on the other. Trappers aren't asking the dog walkers to not use the FS and it should go the other way too.
Carry on I am done ranting for the day!!!!
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Oak - you can still access it by backpacking approximately 15 miles from the other side. It would be a backpack camp situation, as the ground is too rugged and steep for a day hunt in and out.
So technically, that's your out if you are looking for one. I don't mind walking in 5-7 miles, but...30 miles roundtrip is too much for me.
So technically, that's your out if you are looking for one. I don't mind walking in 5-7 miles, but...30 miles roundtrip is too much for me.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Does "to get to hunt a large portion of NF that belongs to all of us" sound better? Obviously, they did not landlock the entire NF.
I'm not going to try to pack out an elk for 15 miles without pack animals. I'll leave that to the young stud muffins like Oscar, Buzz, Greenhorn and the rest of you.
I'm not going to try to pack out an elk for 15 miles without pack animals. I'll leave that to the young stud muffins like Oscar, Buzz, Greenhorn and the rest of you.
