Rep Russ Fulcher Public Land open letter.

I’m mostly against the idea of transfer. Certainly do not support wholesale transfer of everything.

I do want to stop on the financial efficacy point for just a bit longer: have you seen that info quantified?

There is value in identifying if this is a “can’t” thing or “don’t want to” thing. Surely if there has been thousands of hours of studies, someone had to have estimated the value of bighorn, mountain goat and LE elk tags on the open market right? If not, the “studies” are useless.
Those studies have been done - both the land issue and the wildlife value. I have copes of them.

Again, the wildlife issue is completely irrelevant to the discussion of the land. Our courts have held that the wildlife is not an attachment to the land. Thus, making this a discussion about pricing hunting opportunity is moot as it relates to the ability to maintain/manage lands.

Additionally, in every western state I know, the proceeds from license sales goes to the wildlife agency, not to the general fund. For many reasons, one big reason being that such diversion would be a violation of the rules for Pittman-Robertson funds.

You make the point that if market-based values were used, non-resident hunting is underpriced. Yes, by market-based principles it is underpriced.

Yet, a game agency is not a for-profit entity and is not charged with maximizing profits, rather covering operating costs. A wildlife agency is closer to a non-profit entity, both of which use "non-financial measurement criteria" (CPA jargon) for evaluation of their effectiveness in accomplishing their mission. To say that wildlife agencies should use market-based models to maximize revenue at a different place on the supply-demand curve is like expecting the local Food Bank to charge needy patrons for food that is passed along. Neither has a mandate to make a profit.

Now, when it comes to land management and returns, yes, market-based approaches should be applied, as land agencies are charged with maximizing the revenues for their constituent group; in the case of states, the school systems are the constituent group. It seems more relevant focus on that in the context of a thread around the topic of a political wanting to change land ownership based on a rationale of financial measurement.
 
Again, the wildlife issue is completely irrelevant to the discussion of the land.

From a financial resource perspective that the states have at their disposal in this hypothetical scenario of land transfer, I do not agree. It is extremely relevant, especially in a financially distressed state such as Idaho.

Do you happen to recall roughly what the studies values were for bighorn and mountain goat tag values at in an open market/auction scenario? I have never come across actual dollar figure estimates. Regardless, I think we can all agree that it is a significant financial opportunity waiting for states to realize.

As for where states direct sportsman dollars- that is their prerogative and subject to change as they see fit.

Not wanting to do something is very different than not having the ability to do so. I’m challenging the premise that states “can’t” financially swing this. I’m not sure that is accurate.
 
Last edited:
From a financial resource perspective that the states have at their disposal in this hypothetical scenario of land transfer, I do not agree.

Do you happen to recall roughly what the studies values were for bighorn and mountain goat tag values at in an open market/auction scenario? I have never come across actual dollar figure estimates.

As for where states direct dollars for tags, etc- that is their perogotive and subject to change as they see fit.

Not wanting to do something is very different than not having the ability to do so. I’m challenging the premise that states “can’t” financially swing this. I’m not sure that is accurate.
Heck yeah what a great idea for the future of hunting, sell all tags and opportunities for the maximum the market will allow

You’re thoughts on using tag and licenses moneys for whatever they see fit would completely undo the states ability to get PR and DJ money
 
Neither has a mandate to make a profit.

True. But I don’t believe that “profit” is what we are discussing though- it’s financial viability of the state to sustain itself.

I think a better analogy would be someone having their house trailer foreclosed on while refusing to sell the Ferrari parked outside. Asset management is the states’ own responsibility.

Can’t ≠ don’t want to.
 
As for where states direct sportsman dollars- that is their prerogative and subject to change as they see fit.

Not wanting to do something is very different than not having the ability to do so. I’m challenging the premise that states “can’t” financially swing this. I’m not sure that is accurate.
That is not prerogative, which assumes choice. That is by law.

Wanting and ability are different than "legal," though it seems we live in a time where "legal" is merely a suggestion for some elected officials.

I am sure it is accurate that states can't swing this within the confines of law. You can challenge that, but it ignores the sideboards of what is legal.

Edit: Here is the link to the study by the University of Utah, Utah State, and BYU, as it relates to Utah - https://d36oiwf74r1rap.cloudfront.n...08/1.-Land-Transfer-Analysis-Final-Report.pdf

Other states have done similar studies, all arriving at the same conclusion. And all applying law as the sideboards to what can/can't be done.
 
That is not prerogative, which assumes choice. That is by law.

I am in agreement that laws are fluid. In the event of a large-scale fed-to-state transfer, I’m sure we’d see quite a bit of change in areas way beyond what we are currently discussing.

Also, thank you for posting that study. At quick first glance (page 277), I could not find any estimates of unrealized financial gain via potential changes in tag sales. Huge document though, I will dig in later and see if it’s hiding in there somewhere.

*Nevermind. It’s from 2014- even if it is in there, the values listed are badly outdated.
 
Last edited:
But one key point, federal land management agencies are not tasked with maximizing revenues for their constituents even as much as Burgum and Rollins would like to change that. State land managers are and that’s the crux of the sale and why imo state lands suck for sportsman
 
Those studies have been done - both the land issue and the wildlife value. I have copes of them.
Do the studies make the assumption that State would also get 100% of the royalties that come from Fed land?

Quick google search gives me the following, 2023 Fed royalties from O&G and coal = $8.85B, 2023 Fire suppression on Fed land was $3.1B. I know there is a boatload more to land management than just fire suppression but overcoming the insane cost of wildfires seems to get brought up a lot as a big driver of why the economics don't work.
 
Last edited:
We just have vastly different perspectives on this issue. It’s really surprising you share that perspective but I respect your right to have that opinion.

I appreciate it, and I get where you’re coming from as well. I used to view these types of issues the same way.
 
This was studied multiple times @Treeshark thousands of hours and dollars spent researching this. The conclusion is always that some of the lands would need to be sold into private ownership.
Agreed. The thought has cooled a lot here in Nevada about transferring lands to the state.

But, the land sale deals from congress are still a hot topic. If tbe lands got transferred, many would be sold. No doubt in my mind.

I do like the idea of locals having more direct control over lands close to them.

I do know state lands I visit are better staffed, better maintained and generally more cared for by people that pay a daily use fee to access those state parks.

As compared to forest service and BLM roads in comparatively poor shape, buildings abandoned and no longer in use (remote cabins and admin sites, for example).

But, I also know the state would not be able to absorb the fire budget alone, not to mention taking over, restoring and maintaining current facilities, hiring people to keep it all in check, law enforcement and administrative duties for all of it.

And, just talking about the idea of raising the cost of a hunting license and deer tag had the governor and people up in arms this year (last license increase was in 2003, I believe).

So, in this case, I'll take the lesser of two evils in regards to the public lands, and agree it needs to stay in Federal control.
 
The simplest way to think about this for me is simply price out some land a private ranch whatever and than run through the analysis of purchasing and making it pay for itself. Let’s not even mention opportunity cost. The only way the math math’s out is with development or if the parcel has significant resources. Very few parcels have this potential. Ask a farmer or rancher if you don’t believe me
 
The simplest way to think about this for me is simply price out some land a private ranch whatever and than run through the analysis of purchasing and making it pay for itself. Let’s not even mention opportunity cost. The only way the math math’s out is with development or if the parcel has significant resources. Very few parcels have this potential. Ask a farmer or rancher if you don’t believe me
If the purchase price is $0, the math is much easier.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
117,743
Messages
2,167,021
Members
38,335
Latest member
De765
Back
Top