Reloading Copper Solids

[Ben Lamb]

So the dicussion about the proposed lead ban in Colorado was kind of the impetus for this.

I purchased the following bullets and will load them up tonight or tomorrow for testing on Thursday.

165 grain .308 Hornady GMX for 30-06

180 grain .308 Nosler E-tip fror 300 WM

225 grain .358 Barnes TSX for the 35 Whelen.

I was disappointed that only Barnes makes a 35 caliber copper solid. I had to break a 3 year boycott of Barnes in order to try this (Barnes provided the initial funding for Big Game Forever to get off the ground).

I have IMR & H 4350, RL 15, RL17, RL19, RL22, Hogdon Superformance, H4895 and a few other powders that I can try.

I'll start out with RL 17 for the whelen, IMR 4350 for the 06 & RL 22 for the 300. Anybody use these bullets and/or have any suggestions for loads?

 

[MKotur325]

The only suggestion I have is that From what I understand, the Mono metal slugs like to be seated significantly deeper than traditional designs. Something like .030-.050 off the lands. I'd start seating them in that range and try it from there. I'm certain that others can provide more insight than I can.

 

[jryoung]

I had to break a 3 year boycott of Barnes in order to try this (Barnes provided the initial funding for Big Game Forever to get off the ground).

Thanks for the reminder that I need to finish my transition to Nosler where I can. I've been very happy with Federal Premiums Trophy Copper 180gr in my 06's...as I understand it is just the E-tip with cannelures put in.

I know with Barnes .050 off the lands should be your starting point. This can put you in a position of compressed loads depending on how the powder fills up the case. Otherwise, I don't have much in the way of suggestions other than I do not like the temp sensitivity of RL-22. Tough to walk away from that powder is it is the most accurate I have ever shot.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The only suggestion I have is that From what I understand, the Mono metal slugs like to be seated significantly deeper than traditional designs. Something like .030-.050 off the lands. I'd start seating them in that range and try it from there. I'm certain that others can provide more insight than I can.

They have increased Sectional Density due to the material, so it does make sense that you seat them deeper to get to the preferred COL.

A lot of my loads are compressed as it is, so we'll see if we can make something work. I figure on reducing current load data 10% and starting from there. Hopefully something will work, at least for the 30 cals.

I really wish someone made a .35 caliber 250 grain copper.

 

[1_pointer]

Ben- Just to pick nits, mono metal bullets do not have a higher sectional density. A 180gr .308 bullet has the same sectional density regardless of shape or material. ISD is simply a relationship of weight and diameter. However, due to the material being less dense, a 180gr mono will generally be longer than one with a lead core.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Yes. I misspoke. I meant a higher Ballistic Coefficient. THanks for the correction.

The 180 grain Nosler Accubond has a BC of .507, while the E-tip has a DC of .523.

 

[Corax]

After looking at a number of x-ray pictures (at an avocet festival in California, no less), I decided to switch to copper bullets if I was going to eat it. This is probably overkill, since most of the fragments are probably contained in the body cavity and not the meat, but I have been using the 139 gr Hornady GMX over 66 gr H-4831 in 7mm Rem mag - seems to work well. I wish Federal would sell the trophy copper bullets as bullets.

 

[1_pointer]

After looking at a number of x-ray pictures (at an avocet festival in California, no less), I decided to switch to copper bullets if I was going to eat it. This is probably overkill, since most of the fragments are probably contained in the body cavity and not the meat, but I have been using the 139 gr Hornady GMX over 66 gr H-4831 in 7mm Rem mag - seems to work well. I wish Federal would sell the trophy copper bullets as bullets.

Not only that, but raptors for some reason are much, much, much more sensitive to lead exposure than humans. IIRC, something along the lines of 0.005 to 0.01 GRAINS of bullet lead are problematic for a large raptor (ie eagle). I'm pretty sure I've swallered more than a few lead shot over the years from eating small game and birds that are WAY heavier than that...

 

[jryoung]

Not only that, but raptors for some reason are much, much, much more sensitive to lead exposure than humans. IIRC, something along the lines of 0.005 to 0.01 GRAINS of bullet lead are problematic for a large raptor (ie eagle). I'm pretty sure I've swallered more than a few lead shot over the years from eating small game and birds that are WAY heavier than that...

This was posted by a vet on 24HCF based on his experience/knowledge from treating infected eagles. His preface what also that a) it's the entrails that are often most damaged, b) it's the entrails that are left in the field, c) lungs, liver and heart will always be eaten first by a raptor if they have the choice (basically everything is working against them).

100 micrograms per deciliter is a fatal dose of lead to a raptor. For a 3 to 6 kg eagle, that is 300-600 micrograms or 0.005 to 0.01 grains

so 1/100th of a grain (or less) is a fatal dose. A jacketed bullet loses 30-50 grains as it passes through the lungs and lodges into the shoulder for you to recover and weigh / photograph. How much of that 30-50grains is in the lungs ? Half ? Even if it's only 10% (5 grains), that's still 500x the fatal dose for an eagle.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Not only that, but raptors for some reason are much, much, much more sensitive to lead exposure than humans. IIRC, something along the lines of 0.005 to 0.01 GRAINS of bullet lead are problematic for a large raptor (ie eagle). I'm pretty sure I've swallered more than a few lead shot over the years from eating small game and birds that are WAY heavier than that...

And look how you've turned out.

 

[belly-deep]

Ben,

Don't be afraid to step down a weight or two. Like 150's in the '06, etc.

They really penetrate and its nice to flatten out your trajectories with the lighter bullets. I loaded up some 150 TSX for my dad's '06. 2950 out of a 20" barrel with Ramshot Big Game and a WLR primer.

 

[jryoung]

I really wish someone made a .35 caliber 250 grain copper.

You know I read an article on the innernets that said all bullet manufacturers are going to abandon CA and the upcoming statewide ban. Maybe I need to run up to Sand Hill Road and see if any VCs want to fund a copper bullet manufacturer. I wonder what the upfront capital investment would be.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben,

Don't be afraid to step down a weight or two. Like 150's in the '06, etc.

They really penetrate and its nice to flatten out your trajectories with the lighter bullets. I loaded up some 150 TSX for my dad's '06. 2950 out of a 20" barrel with Ramshot Big Game and a WLR primer.

I've heard that, and tried some 150's in the original Barne's X bullet a number of years ago and couldn't get them to group at all. To be fair though, no 150 grain bullet shoots well out of my 06.

 

[Corax]

Not only that, but raptors for some reason are much, much, much more sensitive to lead exposure than humans.

Our digestive system basically gets one shot at whatever we eat - if we eat a bullet fragment it is out of the way in 36 hours or so. With a bird, it sits in the gizzard until it is ground up. Plus their digestive juices are apparently more acidic than ours.

 

[schmalts]

I use Barnes TTSX 165's in my 300WSM. While they are accurate I just am not impressed with the wound and exit holes. Maybe it is just me but I seem to have a lot better blood trail and exit from Accubonds. Been thinking of trying the Nosler lead free soon.

 

[Corax]

I have used the Trophy Bonded Tip, the Accubonds, and the GMX on elk sized game. The TBT mushroomed into 4 petals suitable for a magazine ad, great surface area, and was recovered under the skin on the far side. Accubonds mushroomed and were somewhat mangled, about 70% weight retention, and again under the skin. I have never recovered a GMX - they always exited, sometimes passing lengthwise through the elk. My guess is that any of the copper bullets are going to perform about the same. I do prefer a tipped copper bullet on the theory that expansion will be better than on a non-tipped.

 

[shoots-straight]

I use Barnes TTSX 165's in my 300WSM. While they are accurate I just am not impressed with the wound and exit holes. Maybe it is just me but I seem to have a lot better blood trail and exit from Accubonds. Been thinking of trying the Nosler lead free soon.

I have the same problem. No blood trails to be had because they die right where they stand.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I have the same problem. No blood trails to be had because they die right where they stand.

That's been my experience too. Usually dead within about five steps or less of impact.

 

[mtmuley]

Whatever mono you choose load for velocity. Monos like speed. That's why light for caliber mono bullets work well. mtmuley

 

[1_pointer]

I use Barnes TTSX 165's in my 300WSM. While they are accurate I just am not impressed with the wound and exit holes. Maybe it is just me but I seem to have a lot better blood trail and exit from Accubonds. Been thinking of trying the Nosler lead free soon.

FWIW, the reviews/comparisons I've read between the Etip and TTSX showed less penetration for the Etip because it opens wider. Might be what you are looking for...?