Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[Gulf of America]

There is quite few families of dead people at the hands of illegal immigration that would probably gladly serve life as an innocent person to bring their kid back.

That's a real slippery slope. Should we be rounding up white males between age 15 and 25 since they're predominantly implicated in school shootings?

Here's Google AI.


To be clear, I am not advocating for open borders, but using cases of violent crimes to pull on heartstrings and say all illegal immigrants should be rounded up is the same performative BS that you're accusing the woman testifying of.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

What are acceptable collateral damages in society? Barriers to voting should be weighed very carefully to determine if the societal cost is worth it.

Right on! IMO, having valid ID is an incredibly a low barrier to voting. Makes it hard for me to understand how there would be any measurable societal cost to requiring it.

 

[sapperJ24]

There is quite few families of dead people at the hands of illegal immigration that would probably gladly serve life as an innocent person to bring their kid back.

I suspect the families of most dead people, regardless of who killed them (another parent, rival, soldier, drunk driver, careless employer, citizen, legal resident, or illegal immigrant), would do anything to bring their child back.

 

[SAJ-99]

I do wonder how getting yelled at, called a nazi, spit on, videoed, whistles blown at you, called a murderer, etc. all day at work would affect how you do your job?

If it affects them and causes them to do things that cannot be rationally justified, maybe they are in the wrong job?

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

If it affects them and causes them to do things that cannot be rationally justified, maybe they are in the wrong job?

That is very possible

 

[Bonasababy]

I think its myopic to think that this woman's testimony wasnt rehearsed and performed to push a narrative. I also think its myopic to believe all ICE agents are good and aren't breaking any laws. I think its myopic to believe any part of these protests are organic. Since I think this way im a selfish little twit. 2 wrongs never make a right and our govt is really good at convincing people otherwise.

Its not just the congressional testimony she provided...its that like the two killings by ICE the video of this happening is widely available.

I think there could be some ignorance of how autistic people think and might act.

Again...she's autistic, and was heading to a doctor due to a brain injury that she also suffers from.

We should not expect her to look or act normally, IMO.

Her well prepared appearance matches the VERY focused behavior some autistic peoole display, in my experience.

 

[Bonasababy]

Did you read the article it clearly talks about dems opposition to voter ID. What I don't get is why is this a issue for dems when over 70 percent support it.

I get the far left when they can't find a way to logically attack a resonable idea they try and attack the person that brings it up. The reasonable left.........lol

Its a completely different topic with solid reasons to discuss why it is a problem, I think it deserves a separate thread though.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

This is an excellent point and can be used to draw some other parallels.

For example, fighting crime is far easier if you intrude into civil rights. Is it better to sacrifice some civil rights in order to more effectively deter crime? Or, are civil rights sacred and less effective law enforcement is the necessary byproduct. To me, it’s the latter without question.

Do you risk sending an innocent person to jail in your quest to incarcerate criminals? Or is this collateral damage simply unacceptable? Again, in my opinion I’d rather see a guilty person skate than an innocent person lose their freedom.

What are acceptable collateral damages in society? Barriers to voting should be weighed very carefully to determine if the societal cost is worth it.

There is absolutely a trade off between safety and liberty in many cases. We see it quite often in the gun control policy space. How far are we willing to degrade 2nd Amendment rights in the pursuit of public safety? It depends on who you ask and what state. If you follow the Colorado General Assembly they seem to have no limits on how far they will go in limiting or obstructing the firearm industry and gun owners in their claimed pursuit of “public safety”. Bringing it back to Voter ID laws, I think most Americans don’t believe it is too much to ask for someone to provide a Govt issued ID to vote. YMMV. You have to provide ID to buy beer, buy a gun, operate a motor vehicle, etc. But as is always the case, how the law is written and applied makes a huge difference, it could be reasonable or onerous.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

To be clear, I am not advocating for open borders, but using cases of violent crimes to pull on heartstrings and say all illegal immigrants should be rounded up is the same performative BS that you're accusing the woman testifying of.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly..now ur catching on.

 

[Wildabeest]

Did you read the article it clearly talks about dems opposition to voter ID. What I don't get is why is this a issue for dems when over 70 percent support it.

I get the far left when they can't find a way to logically attack a resonable idea they try and attack the person that brings it up. The reasonable left.........lol

Be aware that the SAVE Act, as currently written, is primarily about proving citizenship vs. proving one’s identity - therefore ruling out drivers licenses or state issued ID cards as compliant documents. Passports and birth certificates would then become the primary forms of proof, and lots of people would be challenged to locate/provide those. So it’s not as simple as “providing ID” since the most common forms of that would not be allowed.

 

[Irrelevant]

There is absolutely a trade off between safety and liberty in many cases. We see it quite often in the gun control policy space. How far are we willing to degrade 2nd Amendment rights in the pursuit of public safety? It depends on who you ask and what state. If you follow the Colorado General Assembly they seem to have no limits on how far they will go in limiting or obstructing the firearm industry and gun owners in their claimed pursuit of “public safety”.

Sure, I think most of HT agrees with you.

Be aware that the SAVE Act, as currently written, is primarily about proving citizenship vs. proving one’s identity - therefore ruling out drivers licenses or state issued ID cards as compliant documents. Passports and birth certificates would then become the primary forms of proof, and lots of people would be challenged to locate/provide those. So it’s not as simple as “providing ID” since the most common forms of that would not be allowed.

Com'on man, it's not like "WE" (affluent white boyz) would need to carry around citizenship records, just the dirty brown ones...

Bringing it back to Voter ID laws, I think most Americans don’t believe it is too much to ask for someone to provide a Govt issued ID to vote. YMMV. You have to provide ID to buy beer, buy a gun, operate a motor vehicle, etc. But as is always the case, how the law is written and applied makes a huge difference, it could be reasonable or onerous.

Like I said, if you required photo id to confirm you are legally vote in that jurisdiction, you would eliminate ~10% of the eligible voters, or 30-ish million people. Do you think we have 30 million illegal immigrants voting? We already struggle with voter turnout.

However, if my only options are to have ICE at the polling stations or require photo ID, then yes, I support voter ID. However, you should really try mail-in ballots, they're quite convenient.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Right on! IMO, having valid ID is an incredibly a low barrier to voting. Makes it hard for me to understand how there would be any measurable societal cost to requiring it.

Democrats need to get better at answering this question. There are compelling reasons to not require ID at this point (assuming the goal is to maximize the ability to vote for U.S. Citizens).

https://www.lwv.org/blog/whats-so-bad-about-voter-id-laws

 

[Irrelevant]

Everyone talks about wanting paths toward citizenship. But then things like this happen that make you wonder if "we" really do.

https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/local/citizenship-oath-ceremonies-canceled-for-several-in-north-central-washington/

"The oath ceremony is the final stage of becoming a U.S. citizen, after applicants complete background checks, interviews and civics exams. An immigrant must be a lawful permanent resident for at least five years before they can apply for naturalization. The process can take up to 25 years, according to the American Immigration Council. "

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Like I said, if you required photo id to confirm you are legally vote in that jurisdiction, you would eliminate ~10% of the eligible voters, or 30-ish million people. Do you think we have 30 million illegal immigrants voting? We already struggle with voter turnout.

This is assuming this 10% either wouldn't go get a valid ID or can't for some reason. Might very well require some folks to do something they have not had to do in the past.

 

[Bonasababy]

I agree that the usage of 'Nazi' has been thrown around a little too freely the past couple(+) of years and likely has diluted the meaning.

The far-right nationalist movement of 1930s Germany didn't start with the gassing of the Untermensch on day one. And I'm not suggesting that the United States will soon begin a widespread (or a narrow) gassing camping. However, there certainly seem to be numerous applicable parallels between the rise of German Nazis and some of what we have seen in the last year.

Most concerningly, there is a federal police force acting with "absolute immunity," bypassing Constitutional rights and norms to indiscriminately round up a class of humans without judicial oversight. Those rounded up seemingly have limited appeal rights before being sent to holding facilities/prisons in other states. Prior to this effort, there was a substantive campaign to blame illegal immigrants for nearly any complaint one could come up with (taking all the jobs, they're murderers/rapists, buying all the houses). The idea of having to prove your citizenship by carrying documentation easily elicits ideas associated with Nazi Germany.

There has been a fairly successful consolidation of power within the Executive and a bypassing of Congress which fits with an authoritarian push. The revival of the Monroe Doctrine and the desire for annexation of nearby territory are not without some similarities. There is also the appearance of retribution and targeting of political adversaries in addition to attempts to control independent media.

While I think Nazi has been overused, it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to see some of what is currently going on as certainly authoritarian and perhaps Nazi-esque.

My take...

Its a bit dangerous to invoke Nazi references unless you or your (speaking generally here) family were directly affected.

Unless...and i have seen multiple media accounts of this...people whose families were directly affected...and people who were persecuted under Nazis including concentration camp survivors...speak out a warning that the behavior they are seeing from the Trump administration matches what they saw under Nazi control in Germany.


Such folks are speaking out now. Also Holocaust experts.

My grandmother Eva Schloss survived Auschwitz. She would not be silent about America today. - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Schloss, whose mother married Anne Frank's father, believed in making Holocaust comparisons when appropriate.

www.jta.org

The ICE shooting in Minneapolis shattered my Holocaust survivor father's American dream

The fatal shooting of Renée Good in Minneapolis by an ICE agent has made the daughter of a Holocaust survivor see the U.S. differently.

forward.com

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/22/holocaust-educator-minnesota-trump-administration-ice-gestapo-nazi-germany