Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[SaskHunter]

Having spent a military career of over thirty years (as well as completing Army War College), thwarting the political ideology and governmental form of Communism, the relatively recent confusion about the difference between socialism and communism is somewhat amusing, as highly educated and otherwise intelligent people tend to apply the term "communist" as a derogatory reflexion on a leader who may have some positive worthwhile ideas about the application of a form of socialism.
As pointed to, there are well respected, highly functioning governments with a socialistic structure and beneficial programs.

How communist of you!

A good chunk of the world seems to think that forms of socialism work, including your neighbours to the North. I promise guys, it's not that bad and having a societal contract that ensures your weak and most vulnerable are cared for, is great!

 

[Straight Arrow]

How communist of you!

Ha, ha! Yep!
I don't recall any historical references to derogatory terms applied to the VA benefits socialistic program to help Veterans returning from WWII or any conflict.
FDR continues to be revered and highly applauded for inception of the socialistic Social Security Program.

There does seem to be a growing respect for the Canadian way.

 

[rjthehunter]

How communist of you!

A good chunk of the world seems to think that forms of socialism work, including your neighbours to the North. I promise guys, it's not that bad and having a societal contract that ensures your weak and most vulnerable are cared for, is great!

 

[406dn]

www.transition2025.com

Don't forget to donate before you leave to elk hunt.

I'll do you one better, you donate, and I'll match it.

 

[El Jason]

We’re shut down over health care. I’m not an expert, and maybe Obama Care isn’t sustainable without excessive subsidies. I don’t profess to know.

What I do know is the GOP has had plenty of time to come up with and pass an alternative plan. Readily accessible preventative care for low income folks would probably save more lives than drone strikes on alleged cocaine boats and discounted obesity drugs. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.

Time for everyone to act like adults and sit down to hammer this out.

 

[406dn]

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I have several Canadian friends from my horseback pointing dog field trial habit. None of them have ever expressed envy concerning our health care system.

My farrier injured his back this summer. He told me that he had not been to a doctor. I asked him why, and he told me that his deductible for he and his family is $14k. That is the policy that had monthly premiums they could fit into their budget. He is hoping time and informal physical therapy will get him back to normal.

Our health care delivery system is deeply flawed. My personal insurance is fantastic. Between medicare and the employer subsided policy, I have no complaints. Many others have plenty.

 

[Gulf of America]

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The only study cited without following links is a conservative think tank. I'd be a lot more interested in input on the subject from Canadians on HT. That's like using an ACLU study as your only citation on crime statistics.

 

[Irrelevant]

I'm jumping to the other ship on this topic. Get rid of the subsidies. Jack up the prices, full market rates. I'm ready for low-income America to feel the full brunt of healthcare. Or just forgo healthcare insurance entirely. But only if we also allow healthcare providers to require upfront payment. Cancer? Sorry, that'll be $150,000.

I'm going to be fine.

 

[birdseye]

As a proud conservative and long time GOP, my party has screwed the pooch with irreversible damage. Govt shutdowns cost more money in the long run than what they save and I wonder what the millions upon millions of dollars of the orange baboons gold guilded ballroom could of went towards health insurance to our low income and heck, the newest class of low income - the middle. Threatening and demeaning our dear, loyals friends North of the border...can't forget the GOP trying to steal Public lands. I sure miss the old days when I was fooled that it was the Dem's who were the tax and spenders and going to take my guns while my party was the supposed conservatives along with the blame Obama cry. So, from "Relax, Everything is Going to be OK"...NO, it's not

 

[Nameless Range]

Peter Attia had a great series of discussions on healthcare in America, and the way he described it was 3 levers: Cost, Availability, and Quality

Pull one and you likely affect the others. Healthcare is skyrocketing in price, or becoming far harder to get, across various systems in the world. It's complicated, and anyone proposing an easy fix is likely not being robust in their thought.

 

[406dn]

The biggest single thing that would really help health care costs is if somehow Americans could be convinced to exercise and take real care of their body. Collectively, we are in horrible physical condition. A large percentage of middle aged and older adults are insulin resistant, or have type 2 diabetes. Over the span of time they have to manage the disease, it is not inexpensive.

How many joint replacement surgeries could be avoided, if obesity was not so prevalent?

My farrier's example reflects the true cost of health care insurance. He and his wife are self employed. She is a veterinarian, and he ranches, blacksmiths, and still does an amount of shoeing horses. I'd guess they make too much to get a government subsidy. They have two children. I can't remember exactly what their monthly premium is, but if I remember right it was $700ish/month.

We have so many winners and losers, when it comes to access to affordable health care. I have been a winner. When you work for the largest publicly owned oil company, the benefits are very good. I've been retired for a dozen years. Their insurance covered my wife and I until medicare took over. Then we were put on a very good supplemental plan, largely paid by the company. Anyone who is self employed or working a job that does not offer health insurance, has a much harsher situation.

It is a house of cards that will collapse at some point. I've heard that the GOP has some concepts of a plan.

 

[elkduds]

The most effective plan to optimize utilization of preventative healthcare is a basic level of universal healthcare coverage. No financial barriers for farriers, or anyone else. As discussed elsewhere, preventive health care is cheaper by many x than treating the chronic illnesses that consume 90% of US healthcare costs.

Per AI: Chronic illnesses account for approximately 90% of all healthcare expenditures in the United States. This significant portion of spending is due to the higher volume of care needed, including frequent visits to providers, hospitalizations, and prescription fills for those with chronic conditions.

Invest in universal basic care, save many times more than that investment in reduced chronic illness care. Plus enjoy the social welfare savings and business productivity benefits of reducing chronic illness, even if by only 1/3. Reduction in disability/Medicaid benefits claims because people without debilitating chronic illnesses keep working and earning instead of costing us in entitlement programs. Many Americans stay on disability because the cost of health insurance is out of reach for low earners. Go to work, lose your healthcare. Provide them basic Medicaid-style healthcare and the math for them favors employment over maintaining disability.

Not rocket surgery.

 

[Irrelevant]

Invest in universal basic care, save many times more than that investment in reduced chronic illness care.

I'm not sure there's a strong correlation there. All of the least healthy people I know choose that lifestyle not for lack of access to or the cost of healthcare.

 

[SaskHunter]

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BLUF: While Canada's healthcare is not the best, it is very good and accessible to ALL regardless of insurance or personal wealth.

I wonder what the wait time is for those who cannot afford health coverage in the US?

I would guess these stats are for benign ailments. I'm in my mid-30s and have never waited 30 weeks to see a specialist or for treatment start to finish. I always have the option to go private pay out of pocket if I want too.

An AI overview seems to say that while Canada isn't the best, it definitely ranks higher than the US overall. The US sounds great if you have money and great insurance, otherwise it looks like the comon theme is: "sucks to suck".




I don't mean to be flippant but I travel to the US a lot and it seems from personal observation that our general population overall looks healthier. I also have family in the US and their healthcare is stupid expensive. Do I pay a lot of taxes? Sure. Do I like that education, healthcare, social services, etc., are free or super cheap? Hell yeah!

Two kids cost my wife and I roughly $300 at the hospital and that's because we upgraded to a private room post-delivery. My wife also got to take a year off work, paid for by tax payers, after both my kids were born and I got 6 weeks, again paid by tax payers, for each.

My point is, countries like Canada do pretty damn well with our slough of social services. We're not perfect, but I strongly believe we have it better than the average American.

 

[Nick87]

I'm not sure there's a strong correlation there. All of the least healthy people I know choose that lifestyle not for lack of access to or the cost of healthcare.

Idk if I'd paint with that broad of a brush, or maybe im misunderstanding your post.

 

[jimh406]

Nobody complains about health care if they aren't using it. Who's system is better has to do with what metrics you use.

I don't doubt that some are happy with Canada's version, but I don't think I'm the only one who knows people who don't like it. In any case, neither system is going to be perfect anytime soon.

I agree with the biggest improvement with health care costs is changing the way people take care of themselves and what they eat. The problem is we've been conditioned for decades to eat too much of the wrong things.

It's like anything else. People who've been believing false information for years are pretty hard to convince.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I guess the election was bound to produce snowflakes.

The right has been calling Democrats, socialists and communists for as long as I can remember. The sting is minimal, at most.

Sanders and Mamdoni identify as democratic socialists. That would be very similar to the Nordic countries. And really, with Trump's bro fest with Putin, I half expected to GOP to follow suit.

Anyway keep being snow flakes, I'm leaving to elk hunt tomorrow, and snow never hurts.

I would say the difference is many Democrats now self-identify as socialists; it’s not just a misplaced, baseless accusation. I would disagree that the Democratic Socialists of America share the same principles of most modern Nordic countries. I don’t recall them calling to defund the police, celebrate or downplay October 7th, and attempt to seize the means of production. I also believe there is quite a bit of daylight between Dems advocating for limited social “safety net” programs and the DSA w/Mamdani.

I am always perplexed by the term “democratic socialist”, reminds me of Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (aka North Korea). Not really that democratic. To me democracy is about citizens having choices and the more you move down the scale of socialism, the less choices and more undemocratic a nation becomes.

That being said I do see the GOP position moving closer to some form of universal health care, similar to the current Dem position. The current medical system in the U.S. is broken and untenable.

Does supporting capitalism and critizing socialism make me a snowflake?

 

[seeth07]

guys and gals....it is HUNTING SEASON FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Save it until at least January...

 

[Irrelevant]

Idk if I'd paint with that broad of a brush, or maybe im misunderstanding your post.

I generally support pretty much any health care system or concept than what we have but it's not because something else would make us healthier.

 

[Nick87]

I generally support pretty much any health care system or concept than what we have but it's not because something else would make us healthier.

Gotcha.