Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[SAJ-99]

You provide good perspective.
It all makes sense now, you are older than I thought.^^

I'm at my desk if the market is open, so yeah "here while at work" I guess is true.

I did a lot of work a couple of years ago for someone trying to figure out the cause of the inflation in college tuition and am currently doing something similar for healthcare. We also have a local vote on a tax to build four new Trades High Schools ,so I have spent a lot of time recently explaining to people why these are a bad idea regardless of your political leanings.

If you think inflation in college tuition is ridiculous, don't look at the cost of child day care. Sometimes I think the simple reason for a lot of things is we keep lowering the standard for "good" for each generation. I'm sure a rant on participation awards would definitely show my age.

 

[WildWill]

Ive got a difference in understanding of facts here. Open to being outside my echo chamber - but all information i am aware of points to the opposite of that.

Again - i dont really have the same understanding of facts. Theres a lot of education that frankly doesnt produce in terms of tangible things that make the economy better. More folks going into construction/energy will do more for our gdp growth than those same people pursuing history degrees and aimlessly wondering the world hoping to apply it.

I think one of the most important things thats been a policy push in my lifetime is price transparency. Being an analytical person - i was sort of shocked when you couldnt have any idea what any procedure might cost. Its an extortion model - where you find the price out after its been completed.

Thats part of what i voted for - and im aware the entirety of the rest of it isnt ideal. Just trying to express an alternate point of view and/or grow change my own.

Your second point is spot on.

I'm at my desk if the market is open, so yeah "here while at work" I guess is true.

I did a lot of work a couple of years ago for someone trying to figure out the cause of the inflation in college tuition and am currently doing something similar for healthcare. We also have a local vote on a tax to build four new Trades High Schools ,so I have spent a lot of time recently explaining to people why these are a bad idea regardless of your political leanings.

If you think inflation in college tuition is ridiculous, don't look at the cost of child day care. Sometimes I think the simple reason for a lot of things is we keep lowering the standard for "good" for each generation. I'm sure a rant on participation awards would definitely show my age.

Not wrong on daycare almost $1300 a month for a infant. Granted one of the better ones around but still.

 

[MTGomer]

My family froze to death because we didn’t want to be judged by people like Brent for collecting wood from a dead tree on public lands to heat our home with, without a permit.

I am currently on life-support using talk to text because all of my fingers froze off

If I live, I will pickle them and send them to my Senators to stir their cognac with, as a reminder of their dereliction of duty.

 

[Bonasababy]

Compelling info from the article....


While no single cause is attributed as the primary reason college tuition keeps increasing, several possible explanations have been offered on the subject. Each of these ideas explain the rise in tuition as a result of an imbalance in market-driven economics.

The Bennett Hypothesis

The more grant aid a college student and their family get, the more they are willing to pay for tuition; subsequently, this allows colleges to set higher rates of tuition.

The Golden Ticket Fallacy

Believing any college degree would result in improved future earnings results in college students doing less in-depth research on the cost of college, including tuition.

The Invisible Menu

The published prices of tuition do not include grant aid or discounts the student may receive. With the true cost of tuition obscured, colleges have trouble lowering prices to match their competition.

Oligopolistic Competition

For the majority of college students finding a college constrains them to their local geographic area. Without competition, the small number of local colleges in the area can keep tuition rates high.

Excessive Regulation

Regulation, accreditation, and federal subsidies make it difficult for innovative providers of higher education to emerge and offer the kind of competition the market needs to lower tuition prices.

This ignores one real factor--the contribution towards tuition each state offers. Until recently--when they went too far IMO (just waiting for a court challenge)--my state had cut that amount drastically, even when adjusted for inflation. State to state differences in cost are steep due to the disparity of this funding source and how much the state supports higher education as much as anything.

The other thing is federal support, particularly the rules which give or take that away.

My parents were a little better off in their time than my wife and I have been, solid upper middle class.

I was able to declare myself independent from them at the time and obtain Pell Grants. Those plus a few other sources and working at the college had me finishing my 5 years (I stayed an extra year while waiting to get into a preferred MS program) owing mere hundreds of dollars.

Fast forward to our three kids. Could not declare themselves independent, could not qualify for pell grants, and the FAFSA process including land that I was not the sole owner of so couldn't sell if I wanted to as totally liquid and something I could sell to fund my kids schooling. The one who went on for an MS degree will be paying off her loans for a while yet. I had so little I paid it off within months when I started working.

Lots of people focus on the short term picture--the cost--without looking at the long term benefits of a better educated workforce, and the net positive that provides for the overall economy.

Just look at todays economy and why it is booming. Shifting everyone into trade schools is not going to help us compete with the rest of the developed world.

And there is value in degrees that aren't hard trades despite the old duffer bias rants against them. Just ask any corporate recruiter.

Government funding for education could be done better and that will pay off in the countries economy.

 

[Gulf of America]

Regardless of the degree program, the biggest benefit of college is forcing a hard-headed young adult who thinks they know everything to be confronted with ideas different than their own. People who learn to think critically and use opposing ideas to challenge or hone their own ideas are better citizens and better workers, regardless of whether they are working in the same field as their degree. If politicians think critical thinking is a net-negative to their support, perhaps they need to adjust their policies to meet even the tiniest bit of scrutiny besides team cheerleading.

 

[Oak]

Can BLM ignore land-use plans and lease off-limits ‘Golden Triangle’ habitat for drilling? - WyoFile

Legal questions loom over 20,000 acres of prime habitat for mule deer, pronghorn and sage grouse successfully nominated for drilling leases by Casper-based Kirkwood Oil and Gas.

wyofile.com

 

[SAJ-99]

Can BLM ignore land-use plans and lease off-limits ‘Golden Triangle’ habitat for drilling? - WyoFile

Legal questions loom over 20,000 acres of prime habitat for mule deer, pronghorn and sage grouse successfully nominated for drilling leases by Casper-based Kirkwood Oil and Gas.

wyofile.com

Not surprising news. I most concerned by people not seeming to understand what is happening, as the quote below shows. Oil prices are so low they almost can't make money. Maybe they buy the lease and sit on it?

“If you’re nominating parcels that have been closed under a valid and existing RMP, that would seem to be illegal,” said Matt Gaffney, an attorney who directs legal and government affairs for the Wyoming Outdoor Council.

 

[BrentD]

Compelling info from the article....


While no single cause is attributed as the primary reason college tuition keeps increasing, several possible explanations have been offered on the subject. Each of these ideas explain the rise in tuition as a result of an imbalance in market-driven economics.

The Bennett Hypothesis

The more grant aid a college student and their family get, the more they are willing to pay for tuition; subsequently, this allows colleges to set higher rates of tuition.

The Golden Ticket Fallacy

Believing any college degree would result in improved future earnings results in college students doing less in-depth research on the cost of college, including tuition.

The Invisible Menu

The published prices of tuition do not include grant aid or discounts the student may receive. With the true cost of tuition obscured, colleges have trouble lowering prices to match their competition.

Oligopolistic Competition

For the majority of college students finding a college constrains them to their local geographic area. Without competition, the small number of local colleges in the area can keep tuition rates high.

Excessive Regulation

Regulation, accreditation, and federal subsidies make it difficult for innovative providers of higher education to emerge and offer the kind of competition the market needs to lower tuition prices.

I will try to say this nicely, but if you are talking about public universities, this is pretty ridiculous in light of the facts that are well known and agreed upon.

Back when America really was great, a big part of it was because we, as a society, agreed that a well educated population was critical to our growth and quality of life. We believed that to the extent that even people w/o children paid taxes to ensure that children and young adults were able to go to school, if they wished. We supported public education at all levels with heavy subsidies, especially from the states.

And then the 1990s came along and society (we), decided that we did not want to pay to educate the children of others, even though those children would one day be wiping the spittle off our chins and keeping the furnaces lit when we aged into our second childhoods.
We also saw a lot of animosity being directed and people who might be considered "smart" (ie, well educated). Being "smart" was uncool. And then we decided that universities being part of the government, were simply evil, and all of this became politically driven well. When we came to hate .gov, that included, most especially, the universities (except for the football teams, of course, ).

The result was that state legislatures started defunding universities. They also started tying lots of strings to what they did fund, which pulled money away from other parts of the basic bones of a liberal curriculum. (note, "liberal" here, does not equate to red-blue divisiveness, it simply means a broad and balances exposure to many topics and perspectives).

The result of all of this that, where the majority of a public university's budget was paid by the state and only a minority share (like 1/3 or less) was paid by the student and his or her family, now that ratio has completely flipped and more. I used to have graphics for all of this, but they are long lost and outdated anyway. But I was just looking this up for my former institution, which is a typical public school. Right now, Tuition is footing about 73% of the university's entire budget while the state of Iowa covers most of the rest, minus a 4-5% that comes from the indirect costs associated with research grants.

If you do not already know, check out how tuition prices are changed. Public universities cannot raise their tuition. They have to get permission to do so from boards or regents or other politically appointed people. Appointed by the same people that are doing their best to cut the knees out from under public universities (again, except for the football teams).

Your politicians raised tuition (indirectly by cutting state subsidies) because it has been popular to beat up on universities by cutting the budgets and hog-tying as much of the money they do spend to special issues that are not aiding the university's overall health and effectiveness.

Votes matter, and you should notice that the folks that do not like our public universities also tend to not like our public lands.

Sorry for the late-night rambling, but it I think it gives you a pretty good idea of where your tax dollars used to go and where they do not go any more.

Those of you that are 60 something years old, thank your lucky stars that you rode the last coat tails from when America was great, with the help of your fellow citizens. Those of you that are much younger, know that your politicians and your parental generation voted this in, and now America ain't so great.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I will try to say this nicely, but if you are talking about public universities, this is pretty ridiculous in light of the facts that are well known and agreed upon.

https://shef.sheeo.org/state-profile/iowa/

Appreciate that. I found some information that countered my own opinions and grew my perspective and frankly the information aligns with your comments.

Folks can feel free to look at their own states funding here. Thanks @BrentD

 

[Irrelevant]

Brent, I'm sure your experiences support your opinion, but the data doesn't seem to support it on a larger US, scale. Or maybe I missed your point entirely.

Educational Attainment Statistics [2025]: Levels by Demographic

Statistics on the level of educational attainment (i.e. high school, bachelor's degree, etc.) broken down by demographics including age, sex, and race.

educationdata.org

But maybe my data source is bad.

 

[TOGIE]

Brent, I'm sure your experiences support your opinion, but the data doesn't seem to support it on a larger US, scale. Or maybe I missed your point entirely.
View attachment 390866

Educational Attainment Statistics [2025]: Levels by Demographic

Statistics on the level of educational attainment (i.e. high school, bachelor's degree, etc.) broken down by demographics including age, sex, and race.

educationdata.org

But maybe my data source is bad.

well, the story of funding can be true at the same time as the above graph, can't it?

when did college loans really come into full force? and at what point did a college education become the dominant best route to raising a family income wise versus the "olden days"

 

[Irrelevant]

well, the story of funding can be true at the same time as the above graph, can't it?

when did college loans really come into full force? and at what point did a college education become the dominant best route to raising a family income wise versus the "olden days"

it apparently is.

 

[brymoore]

it apparently is.
View attachment 390868

I understand why my parents asked me to chose a state college they could cash flow from blue collar jobs.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

One set of grandparents put two kids through college on income from an 80 acre dairy farm. Other grandparents put two sons through Lehigh on a machinist salary. My parents put three kids through college on a combination of engineers and nurse income and private scholarships. I am putting two kids through college on an engineer and substitute teacher income along with private scholarships. My brothers are doing the same. The higher ed hurdle is higher than in the past but is not so high it can’t be cleared with sound planning, sane school and degree choices and good life decisions.

 

[Forkyfinder]

One set of grandparents put two kids through college on income from an 80 acre dairy farm. Other grandparents put two sons through Lehigh on a machinist salary. My parents put three kids through college on a combination of engineers and nurse income and private scholarships. I am putting two kids through college on an engineer and substitute teacher income along with private scholarships. My brothers are doing the same. The higher ed hurdle is higher than in the past but is not so high it can’t be cleared with sound planning, sane school and degree choices and good life decisions.

what school?

I think you might have a way better deal than some other folks...

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

what school?

I think you might have a way better deal than some other folks...

UW! Is their any other choice?

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

what school?

I think you might have a way better deal than some other folks...

I went to U of Missouri , one brother went to Washington State and the other went to U of Idaho

 

[Forkyfinder]

UW! Is their any other choice?

I am putting two kids through college on an engineer and substitute teacher income along with private scholarships

what school?



I think you might have a way better deal than some other folks...

Tuition and Fees

Information on tuition and fees at the University of Wyoming.

www.uwyo.edu

Iowa Central: Tuition and Fees

www.iowacentral.edu

University of Wyoming, for residents, is less than a lot of community colleges in other states. Why i pointed out what i did.

Uwyo 1 semester in state Tuition.... $2700
Iowa ccc..... $3240 for 15 credits

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Tuition and Fees

Information on tuition and fees at the University of Wyoming.

www.uwyo.edu

Iowa Central: Tuition and Fees

www.iowacentral.edu

University of Wyoming, for residents, is less than a lot of community colleges in other states. Why i pointed out what i did.

Uwyo 1 semester in state Tuition.... $2700
Iowa ccc..... $3240 for 15 credits

Fully aware. Like I said sane school choices.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Tuition and Fees

Information on tuition and fees at the University of Wyoming.

www.uwyo.edu

Iowa Central: Tuition and Fees

www.iowacentral.edu

University of Wyoming, for residents, is less than a lot of community colleges in other states. Why i pointed out what i did.

Uwyo 1 semester in state Tuition.... $2700
Iowa ccc..... $3240 for 15 credits

Wait until you see what the Hathaway scholarship adds. Wyo is a great choice. If it wasn’t for having to live in the dorms for a year, I suspect the substitute pay would be enough to cover it.