Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[TheTone]

But the real waste is in the contracts.

I have a couple of former coworkers that started a contract business doing things like delivering port a potties, groceries, etc to fire crews. From their own words they do extremely little and make a lot. I’m kinda hoping they got the axe. They designed the business knowing that they could exploit contracts and sit around while actual firefighters were doing real work

 

[dranrab]

The impact stories tell of real consequences, not merely "BS" strategies to garner public support. That is a red herring in the "efficiency" discussion.
Untold nonprofit support organizations contribute significantly to functioning of national parks and USFS lands, yet NPS and USFS still face challenges and backlogs. 'Don't think it's because of too many workers.
I wonder how many here who obviously hold disdain for the government have actually visited with a ranger in a national park, enjoyed Glacier or Yellowstone Parks to become aware of the operational challenges, or have attempted to backpack up a downed timber clogged trail in the Bob Marshall Wilderness or up a trail in Wyoming off the Thorofare. The challenges faced by these agencies are real.

Anecdotal accounts of personal employment experiences performing unnecessary work or just idly looking for something to do while taking a regular government paycheck say more about the person than the agency.

In keeping with the intent of this thread to keep people from unnecessarily worrying about their public lands I took occasion to extract the operative language from the "impact" accounts.

"could impede"

"at risk of"

"will eventually threaten"

"may cause"

So, a lot of the "impact" isn't really impact and likely won't be if the leadership an personnel in the agencies can work a little bit smarter and harder. If the right people are leading, supervising and working in those agencies, just like the Coast Guard did, they will overcome the personnel shortages with no substantive impact to the public. Remember, the CG was down 40% or more at their OPERATIONAL units, and public safety actually improved.

The sky isn't falling my friends.

Speaking to one of your points. A good friend of mine is a mountain biking fanatic. He was instrumental in building the trails in Desoto NF. He said the NF employees were a pain in the ass and more of a barrier than a resource. It's volunteers who maintain the trails, and they'll still do so despite the 10% workforce reduction.

 

[dranrab]

@sapperJ24

Responding here because buzz is protected and gets his own safe space (while being allowed to derail anyone else's thread and has piles of times).

Regardless...

I understand it's difficult or even impossible to fire employees that have been working a gov job for a long time. The fastest way to achieve their goals was to let the people who were still on probation. Again, probably not the best way to go about it, but certainly the fastest. I presume more cuts and adjustments will be made to office staff & field staff.

It really was the only way to do it. Any effort to do it slowly and methodically would have given the opposition an opportunity to impede, and they certainly would. They want nothing to do with responsible downsizing of their institution.

 

[trackerbacker]

How old are you, just curious?

Of which, that has what to do? 36.

Curiously, what's your 14 years worth of k1s look like? Ever go through M&As?

Or would you like to correct/argue the basis that the currently held belief that 19 year olds are too inept the run the country when the crop of 65 year olds has been doing mighty bad themselves for decades?

Like whining about blockbuster leadership team, you arguing the abilities of past present and future team abilities to sell VHS and DVD....

...while everything around you is streaming, and it's the whippersnappers who are the problem...

 

[Forkyfinder]

Of which, that has what to do? 36.

Curiously, what's your 14 years worth of k1s look like? Ever go through M&As?

Or would you like to correct/argue the basis that the currently held belief that 19 year olds are too inept the run the country when the crop of 65 year olds has been doing mighty bad themselves for decades?

Like whining about blockbuster leadership team, you arguing the abilities of past present and future team abilities to sell VHS and DVD....

...while everything around you is streaming, and it's the whippersnappers who are the problem...

Ha this is all great. Cheers, im 34.

The point i was actually going to make is that we have all failed - mostly at managing entitlements. Everything else is fighting over crumbs at a bread factory.

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

Another

In keeping with the intent of this thread to keep people from unnecessarily worrying about their public lands I took occasion to extract the operative language from the "impact" accounts.

"could impede"

"at risk of"

"will eventually threaten"

"may cause"

So, a lot of the "impact" isn't really impact and likely won't be if the leadership an personnel in the agencies can work a little bit smarter and harder. If the right people are leading, supervising and working in those agencies, just like the Coast Guard did, they will overcome the personnel shortages with no substantive impact to the public. Remember, the CG was down 40% or more at their OPERATIONAL units, and public safety actually improved.

The sky isn't falling my friends.

Speaking to one of your points. A good friend of mine is a mountain biking fanatic. He was instrumental in building the trails in Desoto NF. He said the NF employees were a pain in the ass and more of a barrier than a resource. It's volunteers who maintain the trails, and they'll still do so despite the 10% workforce reduction.

The employees are not the barriers to building mountain bike trails, the NEPA process is. Any action taken on Federal Land must be evaluated by an interdisciplinary team of resource specialists to ensure compliance with federal regulations and that environmental damage will not occur or be mitigated. The public will also be informed of the intent of the proposed action and have the opportunity to voice their concerns or support. This process must occur for any action to take place. How can we work a little smarter to put together an interdisciplinary team when all of a sudden we no longer have a wildlife biologist because when they moved from a regular employee to a supervisor after 20 years of experience that came with a 1 year probationary period?

 

[Straight Arrow]

It's volunteers who maintain the trails,

Not in Montana or Wyoming. Volunteers do some, but not the difficult work. It's mostly accomplished by seasonal USFS trail hands.

they'll still do so despite the 10% workforce reduction.

No, they won't. The boots-on-the ground, cross-cut sawyers who do the work. Many, if not all, will be gone from the wildlands.

 

[dranrab]

Another

The employees are not the barriers to building mountain bike trails, the NEPA process is. Any action taken on Federal Land must be evaluated by an interdisciplinary team of resource specialists to ensure compliance with federal regulations and that environmental damage will not occur or be mitigated. The public will also be informed of the intent of the proposed action and have the opportunity to voice their concerns or support. This process must occur for any action to take place. How can we work a little smarter to put together an interdisciplinary team when all of a sudden we no longer have a wildlife biologist because when they moved from a regular employee to a supervisor after 20 years of experience that came with a 1 year probationary period?

It wasn't in the trail building that they were the biggest barrier. It shouldn't take a figurative act of Congress to clear Yaupon branches away from the trail.

One of the most frustrating things for me as a .gov employee was the default mindset of the majority. The default mindset was to come up with reasons why things couldn't be done rather than to look for ways to get it done.

 

[dranrab]

Not in Montana or Wyoming. Volunteers do some, but not the difficult work. It's mostly accomplished by seasonal USFS trail hands.

No, they won't. The boots-on-the ground, cross-cut sawyers who do the work. Many, if not all, will be gone from the wildlands.

Well, maybe if people want to use the trails they'll have to pitch in. Crested Butte CO is a mountain biking Mecca ONLY because of volunteers.

The Crested Butte Mountain Bike Association (CBMBA) is the oldest mountain bike club in the world. Founded as a riding club in 1983, today CBMBA creates, maintains, advocates for and loves the 450+ miles of singletrack around Crested Butte, Colorado.

Crested Butte Mountain Bike Association

The Crested Butte Mountain Bike Association (CBMBA) is the oldest mountain bike club in the world. Founded as a riding club in 1983, today...

gunnisoncrestedbutte.com

 

[Bonasababy]

I couldn't agree more with the topic of this post. I think I might differ with some on just who it will be OK for.

Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2 Billion of U.S. Income in 2024

Tesla reported $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 but paid zero federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million.

itep.org

Tesla’s annual financial report, released this morning, shows the company enjoyed $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 on which it reports precisely zero current federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million. That comes to a three-year federal tax rate of just 0.4 percent – more than 50 times less than the statutory corporate tax rate of 21 percent.

 

[trackerbacker]

Another

The employees are not the barriers to building mountain bike trails, the NEPA process is. Any action taken on Federal Land must be evaluated by an interdisciplinary team of resource specialists to ensure compliance with federal regulations and that environmental damage will not occur or be mitigated. The public will also be informed of the intent of the proposed action and have the opportunity to voice their concerns or support. This process must occur for any action to take place. How can we work a little smarter to put together an interdisciplinary team when all of a sudden we no longer have a wildlife biologist because when they moved from a regular employee to a supervisor after 20 years of experience that came with a 1 year probationary period?

I think you're being short-sighted in this example worrying about 1 biologist vs the mountain of issues brought about by 'the process'.

Both the interdisciplinary 'team' and the process are bloated beyond belief. Both need cutting. at least 50-70% of the interdisciplinary team, should need 2, maybe 3, in your context, and regulations-start with cutting every other.

A person can be interdisciplinary. A team, needing to be defined as interdisciplinary, needs reduction. Too many experts.

Think- does your place of employment have a team of accountants, each specialized in specific niches, or a generalist?

If you showed up to work today to 10 accountants over the 1 from last Wednesday....would you think that's wasteful?

And on next Tuesday, if your boss's right hand man fired 9 out of 10, would you argue the right handman was:
-Smart and efficient?
-Mean and a bully?
-Cant fire people because he isn't on the articles of incorporation?

And while firing them-told you checks are now direct deposit instead of grabbing your check Friday after 530p causing you to drive to the bank on saturday and adding one more errand to your life?

Oh btw, you also got a $0.10 raise this quarter since payroll has scalped back but revenues are still the same.

Is that bad, for real? Are 2 out of the 3 bad?

I mean, you could always donate to the IRS (its on their form, you could donate, nothing is stopping you!) or GoFundMe the biologist?

Honest, sincere questions.

And for all those out there opposed to the cuts-you also can donate to the IRS. You can GoFundMe the unemployed. What is stopping you from fighting for your convictions? Put your money where your mouth is, do it! Hire that plumber to plumb your new house. Be what you believe!

"Otherwise, you're just whining from the pine."
-Teddy Roosevelt.

 

[trackerbacker]

I couldn't agree more with the topic of this post. I think I might differ with some on just who it will be OK for.

Tesla Reported Zero Federal Income Tax on $2 Billion of U.S. Income in 2024

Tesla reported $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 but paid zero federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million.

itep.org

Tesla’s annual financial report, released this morning, shows the company enjoyed $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 on which it reports precisely zero current federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million. That comes to a three-year federal tax rate of just 0.4 percent – more than 50 times less than the statutory corporate tax rate of 21 percent.

Ahh, class envy.

Good for him, I utilize every aspect legally allowed to me to retain all the fruits of my labor to the maximum.

I assume BigFin/randy is a tax paying citizen? Does he like to pay less taxes, or as a CPA, did Randy make sure entities were paying the most in taxes?

What about you? Do you pay more than needed or less than needed, legally?

 

[trackerbacker]

Yeah, nature needs quite a bit of help being nature. Especially in the face of the all consuming market. Read a freaking book on the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.

So much so, we should pay more in taxes to help nature fight climate change!

Though, how the taxes changes the climate I'm unsure of...

....better get a interdisciplinary team involved.

 

[SAJ-99]

Curiously, what's your 14 years worth of k1s look like?

I wanted to stay out of this thread, but this comment got me curious. What the hell does a K1 have to do with this discussion? Just curious where you were going with that argument.

 

[dranrab]

Ahh, class envy.

Good for him, I utilize every aspect legally allowed to me to retain all the fruits of my labor to the maximum.

I assume BigFin/randy is a tax paying citizen? Does he like to pay less taxes, or as a CPA, did Randy make sure entities were paying the most in taxes?

What about you? Do you pay more than needed or less than needed, legally?

Yep, if anyone harbors resentment over someone minimizing their taxes, I certainly hope they don't do it themselves.

 

[Gulf of America]

The irony of people cheering the firing of minimum-wage workers to combat "waste, fraud, and abuse" while a billionaire abuses the system to not pay taxes and the same dipshits give him a pat on the back.

 

[dranrab]

Speaking specifically to the impact of these cuts to hunting, in my part of the country, I am not expecting any negative impacts at all. NF workers for the most part are uninvolved in game management and hunting regulations enforcement, the state does most of that. Obviously the land is managed with an eye toward maintaining optimal wildlife habitat, but a 10% reduction in the workforce, primarily at the lower levels, isn't likely to affect that. Our wildlife refuges have small work forces and few enforcement officers. When I took my last CG position, one of my goals coming in was to involve ourselves more heavily in boating safety for hunters and to create partnerships with other agencies. This past year, that paid huge dividends. We put our enforcement officers on USFWS boats and patrolled with them. Doing so allowed them to run two boats on Breton NWR. The operation was very productive and delivered several felony arrests. In the unlikely event any of them are shorthanded in enforcement personnel, the CG will be able to augment.

 

[dranrab]

The irony of people cheering the firing of minimum-wage workers to combat "waste, fraud, and abuse" while a billionaire abuses the system to not pay taxes and the same dipshits give him a pat on the back.

How is legal use of the system abuse? It sounds to me like your problem is with the people that writethe laws that allow that to happen. You obviously never pull the lever for an incumbent, as that would be ironic.

 

[noharleyyet]

Welcome @barnard backwards....nice to read another articulate perspective

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

I think you're being short-sighted in this example worrying about 1 biologist vs the mountain of issues brought about by 'the process'.

Both the interdisciplinary 'team' and the process are bloated beyond belief. Both need cutting. at least 50-70% of the interdisciplinary team, should need 2, maybe 3, in your context, and regulations-start with cutting every other.

A person can be interdisciplinary. A team, needing to be defined as interdisciplinary, needs reduction. Too many experts.

Think- does your place of employment have a team of accountants, each specialized in specific niches, or a generalist?

If you showed up to work today to 10 accountants over the 1 from last Wednesday....would you think that's wasteful?

And on next Tuesday, if your boss's right hand man fired 9 out of 10, would you argue the right handman was:
-Smart and efficient?
-Mean and a bully?
-Cant fire people because he isn't on the articles of incorporation?

And while firing them-told you checks are now direct deposit instead of grabbing your check Friday after 530p causing you to drive to the bank on saturday and adding one more errand to your life?

Oh btw, you also got a $0.10 raise this quarter since payroll has scalped back but revenues are still the same.

Is that bad, for real? Are 2 out of the 3 bad?

I mean, you could always donate to the IRS (its on their form, you could donate, nothing is stopping you!) or GoFundMe the biologist?

Honest, sincere questions.

And for all those out there opposed to the cuts-you also can donate to the IRS. You can GoFundMe the unemployed. What is stopping you from fighting for your convictions? Put your money where your mouth is, do it! Hire that plumber to plumb your new house. Be what you believe!

"Otherwise, you're just whining from the pine."
-Teddy Roosevelt.

Which positions from an interdisciplinary team would you cut and why?