D
Dick Reece
Guest
Lance,thanks for sharing,that post taught me a lot,that is a lot of steak,and the desert was that true story at the end,this is the kind of post I truly enjoy,speaking solely for myself.Thanks again.
Question for Rich Higgins
- Thread starter Slydog
- Start date
Rich Higgins
New member
Edited for content. Or lack there of. Or lack of something.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-17-2003 23:19: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-17-2003 23:19: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]</font>
Krusty, Cdog sums it up a lot better than I could have. Had I summed it up it would have been pertinent to me and my experience with answers to questions I had in the back of my mind. Probably wouldn’t be pertinent to you.
This past Saturday night a buddy and I went out west with our howlers. We were out there and used one lone howl after another with no vocal response. We came back and blew them more or less in his back yard only this time we mimicked a pair not exactly like Cdog described but somewhere between what he and Seldom brought up. This time we got a vocal response.
Borrow my experience and re-read Rich Higgins posts. Why did we get a vocal response at that last location?
Can you see how a little experience can help you recognize the answers to questions perhaps you didn’t even know you had?
This past Saturday night a buddy and I went out west with our howlers. We were out there and used one lone howl after another with no vocal response. We came back and blew them more or less in his back yard only this time we mimicked a pair not exactly like Cdog described but somewhere between what he and Seldom brought up. This time we got a vocal response.
Borrow my experience and re-read Rich Higgins posts. Why did we get a vocal response at that last location?
Can you see how a little experience can help you recognize the answers to questions perhaps you didn’t even know you had?
D
Dick Reece
Guest
Krusty,I wasn't trying to teach you anything.I was explaining to you the way I saw Rich's post,what I got out of it.If you misunderstood,maybe you should go back and read it again?
As for you teaching me to use the Primos howler,you,like several others,including Rich H,tried to, and I failed miserably anyway.I just can't use an open reed call,period.But,thanks for trying.
Regarding the tape,I didn't manufacture it,it's not what "I" consider to be "the" coyote vocalization tape to end all coyote vocalizations.It's what "Primos" considers a tape,apparently done well enough,to include with there Primos howler as an instructional tape. You said you were confused about howls,yips,barks,etc.,as I am in some areas as well.I thought my offer to copy the tape might help you.I apologize for offering,and I also apologize if I somehow inadvertently insinuated that I know anymore than you do about calling coyotes,that was not my intent.
As for you teaching me to use the Primos howler,you,like several others,including Rich H,tried to, and I failed miserably anyway.I just can't use an open reed call,period.But,thanks for trying.
Regarding the tape,I didn't manufacture it,it's not what "I" consider to be "the" coyote vocalization tape to end all coyote vocalizations.It's what "Primos" considers a tape,apparently done well enough,to include with there Primos howler as an instructional tape. You said you were confused about howls,yips,barks,etc.,as I am in some areas as well.I thought my offer to copy the tape might help you.I apologize for offering,and I also apologize if I somehow inadvertently insinuated that I know anymore than you do about calling coyotes,that was not my intent.
Krusty,
I got my chops busted for trying learn all the vocalizations via internet.
Get a copy of calling all coyotes,
Then reread Rich's post,
which should be printed and folded neatly in your call bag by now,
and turn the computer off and go and call some stands.
The only way you will understand is to get out and call.
You have a limited stand experience to fall back on to help fill in the gaps, with vocalizations. You need to get a basic lone howl , and a group howl practiced and go out and give them a whirl.
I have heard some vocalizations from coyotes and had no clue what they were, until I heard somebody do their version.
I heard some versions that were so far off that it was confusing me. But when I had a vocalization that I had heard and I asked Rich about it and described it over the phone, He was able to tell me exactly what type on vacalization it was.
There aren't flash cards on this one, and you can't keep filing on the toneboard until it sounds like a particular sound.
This one requires some stand time.
I had been hunting coyotes for over 20 years and have been howling for several when I made a trip out to Az. to hunt with Rich and Tyler, earlier this year. I came home and practiced some of the stuff I learned on that trip, and I just now learned some more on this last post. I had some prior instances to think back on that Rich struck a cord on, that finally turned a light on.
Thanks Rich for the post, and Slydog for the thread.
later pup
I got my chops busted for trying learn all the vocalizations via internet.
Get a copy of calling all coyotes,
Then reread Rich's post,
which should be printed and folded neatly in your call bag by now,
and turn the computer off and go and call some stands.
The only way you will understand is to get out and call.
You have a limited stand experience to fall back on to help fill in the gaps, with vocalizations. You need to get a basic lone howl , and a group howl practiced and go out and give them a whirl.
I have heard some vocalizations from coyotes and had no clue what they were, until I heard somebody do their version.
I heard some versions that were so far off that it was confusing me. But when I had a vocalization that I had heard and I asked Rich about it and described it over the phone, He was able to tell me exactly what type on vacalization it was.
There aren't flash cards on this one, and you can't keep filing on the toneboard until it sounds like a particular sound.
This one requires some stand time.
I had been hunting coyotes for over 20 years and have been howling for several when I made a trip out to Az. to hunt with Rich and Tyler, earlier this year. I came home and practiced some of the stuff I learned on that trip, and I just now learned some more on this last post. I had some prior instances to think back on that Rich struck a cord on, that finally turned a light on.
Thanks Rich for the post, and Slydog for the thread.
later pup
Krustyklimber
New member
Seldom Ever,
I didn't find your postulation busting my chops at all, but like TBone (who cannot seem to call me Krusty, no matter how many times I ask)(and likewise I don't mean to bust your chops either, but) I have to wonder what makes you think you can teach me about howling... if I remember correctly I helped you to get your Primos functioning properly, and to learn to use it, not that long ago.
To have you send me a tape of your best guess what we're supposed to sound like would only be the blind leading the blind, I thank you for your kind offer but I am going to have to pass...
My brother and I are doing a fine job of confusing eachother with what we've read now, a third tangent to follow is too much for me.
Can you explain the difference between a bark howl and a yip howl? Or why one is bad and the other good?
T-bone,
If cats were the main quarry in your area how much howling would you do?
So far all I have learned from howling, is I am not very good at it, and that it has never produced any results vocal or approach.
Cdog,
Thank you for trying to translate for me, but I could describe the color blue until my face was... but until you saw it, my words would be for naught.
This is how I feel about these vocalizations, I am blind (and maybe tone deaf as well).
You have done one of the best jobs of describing it I have ever read. Though I still do not understand the difference between a yip and a bark, and was told bark howling is the biggest mistake new callers make while howling, resulting in many ruined stands. (and now we throw in herald barks too?)
The amount of contradictory information on howling is staggering.
I wouldn''t know a social howl, from a greeting howl, from a lonesome howl (is there even a difference?)... and I have no way of knowing if I am doing any of them right anyway.
Your advise to get up from the computer is almost as good as the three hundred guys who have told me not to slam the truck door...
When things got really tough during denning/rearing season my brother and I decided we were not going to hunt until the YOY were ready for harvest, I have no desire to call in pups, or to hunt a wet bitch.
Same reason I don't let the kids pick green apples.
I thought I would take this time to become a more intelligent caller, and learn until the "season" starts.
Just doing, blindly, and without reasoning did no good last year... I don't think it would have this year either.
There is a huge problem in choosing the one that works right for me, I dunno what I am supposed to sound like. I had chosen a howler, and was told that it was too low pitched and was scaring everyone away with a too wolflike, or dominant a note.
I am so confused I dunno what to do, or with what call.
Mr. Higgins,
If I chase you around the internet long enough perhaps you'll actually answer (or try to) some of my specific questions... I look forward to cutting and pasting them to yet another site in hopes of enlightenment...
My biggest question for you has gone unaswered many times now... "How does one go about seeing some of the video you have shot???"
Jeff
I didn't find your postulation busting my chops at all, but like TBone (who cannot seem to call me Krusty, no matter how many times I ask)(and likewise I don't mean to bust your chops either, but) I have to wonder what makes you think you can teach me about howling... if I remember correctly I helped you to get your Primos functioning properly, and to learn to use it, not that long ago.
To have you send me a tape of your best guess what we're supposed to sound like would only be the blind leading the blind, I thank you for your kind offer but I am going to have to pass...
My brother and I are doing a fine job of confusing eachother with what we've read now, a third tangent to follow is too much for me.
Can you explain the difference between a bark howl and a yip howl? Or why one is bad and the other good?
T-bone,
If cats were the main quarry in your area how much howling would you do?
So far all I have learned from howling, is I am not very good at it, and that it has never produced any results vocal or approach.
Cdog,
Thank you for trying to translate for me, but I could describe the color blue until my face was... but until you saw it, my words would be for naught.
This is how I feel about these vocalizations, I am blind (and maybe tone deaf as well).
You have done one of the best jobs of describing it I have ever read. Though I still do not understand the difference between a yip and a bark, and was told bark howling is the biggest mistake new callers make while howling, resulting in many ruined stands. (and now we throw in herald barks too?)
The amount of contradictory information on howling is staggering.
I wouldn''t know a social howl, from a greeting howl, from a lonesome howl (is there even a difference?)... and I have no way of knowing if I am doing any of them right anyway.
Your advise to get up from the computer is almost as good as the three hundred guys who have told me not to slam the truck door...
When things got really tough during denning/rearing season my brother and I decided we were not going to hunt until the YOY were ready for harvest, I have no desire to call in pups, or to hunt a wet bitch.
Same reason I don't let the kids pick green apples.
I thought I would take this time to become a more intelligent caller, and learn until the "season" starts.
Just doing, blindly, and without reasoning did no good last year... I don't think it would have this year either.
There is a huge problem in choosing the one that works right for me, I dunno what I am supposed to sound like. I had chosen a howler, and was told that it was too low pitched and was scaring everyone away with a too wolflike, or dominant a note.
I am so confused I dunno what to do, or with what call.
Mr. Higgins,
If I chase you around the internet long enough perhaps you'll actually answer (or try to) some of my specific questions... I look forward to cutting and pasting them to yet another site in hopes of enlightenment...
My biggest question for you has gone unaswered many times now... "How does one go about seeing some of the video you have shot???"
Jeff
Krustyklimber
New member
Pup,
Did you not see where I explained why going out right now is not an option for me?
I am waiting on the young of the year, and for summer fur to be changed out by winter coats.
More than anything we have 10:1 cat/coyote ratio in my part of this state, so until our cat seasons open in a couple months I am not going out ruining good spots to call a cat, only to find there are no coyotes.
That'd be penny wise and dollar dumb (IMHO).
I thought I could learn more while waiting for our "season" to start.
I also have not come to a decision about whether or not I am going to use a camera or gun... so just going and doing isn't in the cards for me... I guess I will STFU until I do decide to go hunting!?!
Unless someone else wants to say "just do it" or "don't slam the truck door" it is obvious I am at the end of the road on learning anything about this subject online... besides Mr. Higgins seems to have left the building... it was his answers I was most interested in.
He always seems to offer his assistance, and then revokes it... I wonder if he does that for kicks???
SE,
I did misunderstand you, and you seemed to feel I was busting your chops... I thought you meant a tape of yourself... I am sorry.
I have a Primos video, and a Carlton cassette tape... I practiced with them for months, and thought I knew how to do it... but when I sent sound samples out to experienced callers many (if not all) said I was doing it wrong. Or that the tone of my howler was wrong.
Sound is such a small part of a stand, that I think this howling will have little bearing or effect on my success... being where there are coyotes, with a gun that will shoot far enough is the biggest problem I face.
Mr Higgins explaining how he interprets the use of coyote vocalizations will not make my shotgun shoot 325 yds, it will not make the shot penetrate fifty feet of thick brush, and it will not turn a bobcat who has winded us... these are the real problems hampering my success... I doubt even his howling would have solved all of these problems.
Jeff
Did you not see where I explained why going out right now is not an option for me?
I am waiting on the young of the year, and for summer fur to be changed out by winter coats.
More than anything we have 10:1 cat/coyote ratio in my part of this state, so until our cat seasons open in a couple months I am not going out ruining good spots to call a cat, only to find there are no coyotes.
That'd be penny wise and dollar dumb (IMHO).
I thought I could learn more while waiting for our "season" to start.
I also have not come to a decision about whether or not I am going to use a camera or gun... so just going and doing isn't in the cards for me... I guess I will STFU until I do decide to go hunting!?!
Unless someone else wants to say "just do it" or "don't slam the truck door" it is obvious I am at the end of the road on learning anything about this subject online... besides Mr. Higgins seems to have left the building... it was his answers I was most interested in.
He always seems to offer his assistance, and then revokes it... I wonder if he does that for kicks???
SE,
I did misunderstand you, and you seemed to feel I was busting your chops... I thought you meant a tape of yourself... I am sorry.
I have a Primos video, and a Carlton cassette tape... I practiced with them for months, and thought I knew how to do it... but when I sent sound samples out to experienced callers many (if not all) said I was doing it wrong. Or that the tone of my howler was wrong.
Sound is such a small part of a stand, that I think this howling will have little bearing or effect on my success... being where there are coyotes, with a gun that will shoot far enough is the biggest problem I face.
Mr Higgins explaining how he interprets the use of coyote vocalizations will not make my shotgun shoot 325 yds, it will not make the shot penetrate fifty feet of thick brush, and it will not turn a bobcat who has winded us... these are the real problems hampering my success... I doubt even his howling would have solved all of these problems.
Jeff
Krusty,
I seen the "time" factor. Then perhaps you need to ask the question after you have definitely been within the earshot of some coyotes, with your howls and have some idea to draw from. If you don't want to mess up your "cat" spots, then take the weekend and travel to a spot where you can get stands in.
I am just trying to tell you that this
can't be done right now via this medium.
My advice would be to get lessons on howling, maybe one of the howlers would trade some lessons on howling for one of those calls.
I am a firm believer that you need to spend the time in the field to learn the whens and wheres of howling.
If you really wanted to get Rich's ideas and answers, you'd make the correct effort to get them. No need for the "retracted" stuff as that is BS.
Later pup
I seen the "time" factor. Then perhaps you need to ask the question after you have definitely been within the earshot of some coyotes, with your howls and have some idea to draw from. If you don't want to mess up your "cat" spots, then take the weekend and travel to a spot where you can get stands in.
I am just trying to tell you that this
can't be done right now via this medium.
My advice would be to get lessons on howling, maybe one of the howlers would trade some lessons on howling for one of those calls.
I am a firm believer that you need to spend the time in the field to learn the whens and wheres of howling.
If you really wanted to get Rich's ideas and answers, you'd make the correct effort to get them. No need for the "retracted" stuff as that is BS.
Later pup
Krusty,
Down boy. Don't get defensive on this one. Speaking for myself, what I've offered is with the intent of making you get out there and put in the field time. I conclude from your remarks that you are hesitant to go out and "educate" coyotes by calling them now without intent of shooting them. That, in and of itself, is one of the biggest fallacies in calling, and I, like you, subscribed to that belief until Rich convinced me otherwise, then I saw it for myself.
I've got a video of three YOY coyotes I called last summer. A month later, I went back one evening and lone howled three times then waited. Just as I was getting up to leave, a coyote offered a threat bark from about 3/8-mile to the west. Again, some day one will threaten you and you'll recognize it immediately. Anyway, he repeated the threat every ten to fifteen seconds like he was on a repeat loop tape or something. I got ready and right on the tail end of the fifth threat, I gave it right back to him. Immediately, he fired back, as did the rest of the pack to the east of me. Further past them and farther east, a second pack lit up giving me hell and for about a minute and a half, you couldn't hear yourself think through above all those coyotes giving me the reda$$. The male and his pack were responding to me from two opposite directions and for a time there, I had, by my count, eight coyotes talking to me one on top of the other. These same coyotes are the pack that entertained me night after night as I left my deerstand. My howling at them and screwing with their little brains elicited no fear at all because I never did anything to them that caused alarm.
'Nother story... Had another group of six coyotes I'd rec'd a complaint on from a feedlot owner. Early October (4th), I was in the area so I snuck in there and howled up three YOY. Messed with them a while. They were interested and just kinda hung out around me until I left. A month later, still having only seen subunits of the entire pack, but not having done anything to cause fear of me, I sat down, gave two lone howls and within a matter of seconds, had five of the six walking at me in a single file line. At twenty yards, I whacked two of them. A month later, I'm back sitting in the same spot. Used my K-all and about 400 yards out, 2 coyotes emerge from a clump of sandplums. I glass them thru my scope and immediately recognize the smaller of the two as one of the three pales that escaped my first effort at laying waste to the pack. The larger of the two possessed the same disctinctive black saddle back of one of the two I shot earlier, but he was much larger. I presumed this was dad, whom I had not seen before this time. Both coyotes hung up fo a while so I gave a lone howl to pique their curiosity. Li'l one stopped dead in her trax. She'd seen this scenario before and wanted nothing to do with it. Dad, having been absent at the first showing, trotted right in. Bam!!!
The point is this: howling in a coyote will not educate it to what you're up to unless you give it good reason to be scared of you. You can howl them in, video tape them, play with their minds, and go home. Afterwards, you can go back any time you want and will, on occasions, see them respond even better than the first time around. There are a lot of nay sayers that will say I'm a fool for saying that, but there are also a lot of guys that have never taken the time or made the effort to try this. I was one of them, until Rich convinced me to give it a try. I am now convinced. The video tapes I have, although few in number, are like game films to a football coach. I've watched them repeatedly and cannot even begin to relate to you the number of things I've noted in those coyotes' behavior responding to my squeaks, whistles and howls. The coyotes are, themselves, the best teachers out there.
And, although I swore to never use the word "hoot" in this context, howling one up and playing with it for 45 minutes is a real hoot.
Again, I'm not trying to bust your chops and don't think pup is either. We're just trying to firmly presuade you to just go out there and take your best shot. If you wait until fall, you've missed out on a lot of learning time and opportunities.
Down boy. Don't get defensive on this one. Speaking for myself, what I've offered is with the intent of making you get out there and put in the field time. I conclude from your remarks that you are hesitant to go out and "educate" coyotes by calling them now without intent of shooting them. That, in and of itself, is one of the biggest fallacies in calling, and I, like you, subscribed to that belief until Rich convinced me otherwise, then I saw it for myself.
I've got a video of three YOY coyotes I called last summer. A month later, I went back one evening and lone howled three times then waited. Just as I was getting up to leave, a coyote offered a threat bark from about 3/8-mile to the west. Again, some day one will threaten you and you'll recognize it immediately. Anyway, he repeated the threat every ten to fifteen seconds like he was on a repeat loop tape or something. I got ready and right on the tail end of the fifth threat, I gave it right back to him. Immediately, he fired back, as did the rest of the pack to the east of me. Further past them and farther east, a second pack lit up giving me hell and for about a minute and a half, you couldn't hear yourself think through above all those coyotes giving me the reda$$. The male and his pack were responding to me from two opposite directions and for a time there, I had, by my count, eight coyotes talking to me one on top of the other. These same coyotes are the pack that entertained me night after night as I left my deerstand. My howling at them and screwing with their little brains elicited no fear at all because I never did anything to them that caused alarm.
'Nother story... Had another group of six coyotes I'd rec'd a complaint on from a feedlot owner. Early October (4th), I was in the area so I snuck in there and howled up three YOY. Messed with them a while. They were interested and just kinda hung out around me until I left. A month later, still having only seen subunits of the entire pack, but not having done anything to cause fear of me, I sat down, gave two lone howls and within a matter of seconds, had five of the six walking at me in a single file line. At twenty yards, I whacked two of them. A month later, I'm back sitting in the same spot. Used my K-all and about 400 yards out, 2 coyotes emerge from a clump of sandplums. I glass them thru my scope and immediately recognize the smaller of the two as one of the three pales that escaped my first effort at laying waste to the pack. The larger of the two possessed the same disctinctive black saddle back of one of the two I shot earlier, but he was much larger. I presumed this was dad, whom I had not seen before this time. Both coyotes hung up fo a while so I gave a lone howl to pique their curiosity. Li'l one stopped dead in her trax. She'd seen this scenario before and wanted nothing to do with it. Dad, having been absent at the first showing, trotted right in. Bam!!!
The point is this: howling in a coyote will not educate it to what you're up to unless you give it good reason to be scared of you. You can howl them in, video tape them, play with their minds, and go home. Afterwards, you can go back any time you want and will, on occasions, see them respond even better than the first time around. There are a lot of nay sayers that will say I'm a fool for saying that, but there are also a lot of guys that have never taken the time or made the effort to try this. I was one of them, until Rich convinced me to give it a try. I am now convinced. The video tapes I have, although few in number, are like game films to a football coach. I've watched them repeatedly and cannot even begin to relate to you the number of things I've noted in those coyotes' behavior responding to my squeaks, whistles and howls. The coyotes are, themselves, the best teachers out there.
And, although I swore to never use the word "hoot" in this context, howling one up and playing with it for 45 minutes is a real hoot.
Again, I'm not trying to bust your chops and don't think pup is either. We're just trying to firmly presuade you to just go out there and take your best shot. If you wait until fall, you've missed out on a lot of learning time and opportunities.
Rich Higgins
New member
Hey Ronnie, those big guys are good protectors, I'm surprised he didn't double back when you turned off after the females and pups. When we bring them in with Mattie on stand they decoy her away and it's back and forth as she chases them and returns to me. Keeps them in front of us for long stretches. Do you think both litters were his ? They will often keep or recruit a sibling to help with denning and rearing and if it's a female unrelated to the alpha male she will often come into estrus as much as a month after the alpha female and they wind up with two litters and shared dens.
Hi Lance, I always enjoy your posts. I can hear the howls and see and smell the mist.
I really didn't mean to leave anyone in limbo,probably best to start over and simply list the identified vocalizations, a description of each, context and possible meaning and application to calling. I am a lousy typist. It is a slow laborious process for me so be patient please.
Hi Lance, I always enjoy your posts. I can hear the howls and see and smell the mist.
I really didn't mean to leave anyone in limbo,probably best to start over and simply list the identified vocalizations, a description of each, context and possible meaning and application to calling. I am a lousy typist. It is a slow laborious process for me so be patient please.
D
Dick Reece
Guest
Rich,take your time,the end result will definitely be worth it.
Rich Higgins
New member
As I mentioned earlier Dr. Camenzind identified 9 vocalizations and I prefer his descriptions and the context in which each is used more than those of other researchers. I believe his description of the function of each is too minimal but I do understand that he cannot allow conjecture to influence his conclusions. He listed as the nine vocalizations--
1. Growl
2. yelp
3. woof
4. bark
5.bark-yip
6.greeting song
7. lone howl
8. group howl
9. group yip-howl
Camenzind devided these into three catagories. The first category includes the growl and yelp. The second category include the woof, bark and bark-yip. The function of the vocalizations in the first two categories are agonistic, warning and threat and should initially be avoided by the caller unless he has targeted exclusively the alpha residents and knows that the caller is set up within the defended core territory. The only time I use these is when I have a full blown tantrem in my face and then it really doesn't matter what sound I make or how I make it.
The final category consists of the four types of howls and here is where the caller has the opportunity to expand his repertoire. This is the area that causes all the confusion amongst callers. As a very social animal the coyote, like the wolf, requires a very complex and comprehensive language, his vocalizations. Further it must be divided into short range and long range, inter-pack and intra pack vocalizations. It has therefore evolved into 'universal' and 'individual' types of communication. Coyotes are born with an apparent instinctive understanding of some vocalizations that seem to be universally understood by different sub-species of canis latrans in different parts of the continent. Hope Ryden reports that while visiting a couple who were raising 6 week old coyote pups in N.H. she was playing a tape of wyoming coyoyes howls and at one point in the tape all the pups, which were playing on the floor froze in position or ran and hid under furniture for several minutes. The next evening she repeated the experiment. At the very same place on the tape the pups ran and hid.
Individual communication is that which is taught by the parents and tenders. This is one of the functions of the long song-fests in late summer nights.
It is believed that coyotes convey information regarding location, identity, emotional state, and intent by means of frequency and duration. Changing frequency and duration of howls changes the information transmitted.
All of this information is neccessary for the caller to understand the nature of the first howl that we discuss- the lone howl. This is the jewell of the caller. This is the one that encompasses the entire gamut of the coyote lexicon. The 'interrogatory howl', the 'female invitation howl',the 'bite my butt, you're a dork howl' and several others that are sold by the call makers are all variations of the lone howl. The inflections, frequencies and different durations of the howl change it's meaning. A short low frequency howl that ends on an upward note has an entirely different meaning than a short higher frequency howl that ends on a constant or downward turn. One is nonthreatening and one is agonistic. The howls and their meanings are so complex that no one can possibly know and understand their specific meanings. As Scott Huber says "Only the yippers know and they aren't telling". Which brings us back to the callers utlilization of the howl. The ---- >LONE HOWL<--- this is the one Gentlemen,(and lady), that causes all the confusion because it is so complex. But, THAT COMPLEXITY MAKES IT ALL VERY, VERY SIMPLE. Since we cannot, with any certainty, know specifically what information we are conveying to the coyotes with our howls we simply convince all coyotes within hearing that we are an unidentified coyote sounding off. Any non aggressive howl regardless of how it is packaged and promoted will accomplish that.
Presentation is important . You do not want to intimidate the omegas, nomads, transients and discourage their approach. You don't want to blast out a hairy chested bark- threat howl from within an overlapping home range and send every coyote within hearing packing- the alphas for their defended territories and the transients for deep cover. I use a howl that is so non threatening that it even brings in 12 week old puppies to investigate the source. Follow it up with prey distress or a curiosity trigger.
The Challenge(I just don't like that name) or threat bark-howl is very effective if you have targeted the alphas and you are set up within their defended core territory. Often the entire pack will respond if the pups are not too young. You can easily get the opposite of the desired results with this vocalization which is the most aggressive of the lot. Group howls are lone howls performed by 2 or more coyotes and relay both inter-pack and intra-pack information. It is useful for spatial distribution, increased pack cohesiveness, and establish and affirm rank within the pack. It is not as effective a locator as the group yip-howl nor does it elicit an approach response as well as the lone howl. The group yip-howl elicits a like response from adjacent packs more than any other vocalization. This vocalization is similar to the group howl but with an increase in the level of excitement and includes much high pitched yipping. Researchers use it as playback to locate coyotes.
CAVEAT: this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-21-2003 07:26: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]</font>
1. Growl
2. yelp
3. woof
4. bark
5.bark-yip
6.greeting song
7. lone howl
8. group howl
9. group yip-howl
Camenzind devided these into three catagories. The first category includes the growl and yelp. The second category include the woof, bark and bark-yip. The function of the vocalizations in the first two categories are agonistic, warning and threat and should initially be avoided by the caller unless he has targeted exclusively the alpha residents and knows that the caller is set up within the defended core territory. The only time I use these is when I have a full blown tantrem in my face and then it really doesn't matter what sound I make or how I make it.
The final category consists of the four types of howls and here is where the caller has the opportunity to expand his repertoire. This is the area that causes all the confusion amongst callers. As a very social animal the coyote, like the wolf, requires a very complex and comprehensive language, his vocalizations. Further it must be divided into short range and long range, inter-pack and intra pack vocalizations. It has therefore evolved into 'universal' and 'individual' types of communication. Coyotes are born with an apparent instinctive understanding of some vocalizations that seem to be universally understood by different sub-species of canis latrans in different parts of the continent. Hope Ryden reports that while visiting a couple who were raising 6 week old coyote pups in N.H. she was playing a tape of wyoming coyoyes howls and at one point in the tape all the pups, which were playing on the floor froze in position or ran and hid under furniture for several minutes. The next evening she repeated the experiment. At the very same place on the tape the pups ran and hid.
Individual communication is that which is taught by the parents and tenders. This is one of the functions of the long song-fests in late summer nights.
It is believed that coyotes convey information regarding location, identity, emotional state, and intent by means of frequency and duration. Changing frequency and duration of howls changes the information transmitted.
All of this information is neccessary for the caller to understand the nature of the first howl that we discuss- the lone howl. This is the jewell of the caller. This is the one that encompasses the entire gamut of the coyote lexicon. The 'interrogatory howl', the 'female invitation howl',the 'bite my butt, you're a dork howl' and several others that are sold by the call makers are all variations of the lone howl. The inflections, frequencies and different durations of the howl change it's meaning. A short low frequency howl that ends on an upward note has an entirely different meaning than a short higher frequency howl that ends on a constant or downward turn. One is nonthreatening and one is agonistic. The howls and their meanings are so complex that no one can possibly know and understand their specific meanings. As Scott Huber says "Only the yippers know and they aren't telling". Which brings us back to the callers utlilization of the howl. The ---- >LONE HOWL<--- this is the one Gentlemen,(and lady), that causes all the confusion because it is so complex. But, THAT COMPLEXITY MAKES IT ALL VERY, VERY SIMPLE. Since we cannot, with any certainty, know specifically what information we are conveying to the coyotes with our howls we simply convince all coyotes within hearing that we are an unidentified coyote sounding off. Any non aggressive howl regardless of how it is packaged and promoted will accomplish that.
Presentation is important . You do not want to intimidate the omegas, nomads, transients and discourage their approach. You don't want to blast out a hairy chested bark- threat howl from within an overlapping home range and send every coyote within hearing packing- the alphas for their defended territories and the transients for deep cover. I use a howl that is so non threatening that it even brings in 12 week old puppies to investigate the source. Follow it up with prey distress or a curiosity trigger.
The Challenge(I just don't like that name) or threat bark-howl is very effective if you have targeted the alphas and you are set up within their defended core territory. Often the entire pack will respond if the pups are not too young. You can easily get the opposite of the desired results with this vocalization which is the most aggressive of the lot. Group howls are lone howls performed by 2 or more coyotes and relay both inter-pack and intra-pack information. It is useful for spatial distribution, increased pack cohesiveness, and establish and affirm rank within the pack. It is not as effective a locator as the group yip-howl nor does it elicit an approach response as well as the lone howl. The group yip-howl elicits a like response from adjacent packs more than any other vocalization. This vocalization is similar to the group howl but with an increase in the level of excitement and includes much high pitched yipping. Researchers use it as playback to locate coyotes.
CAVEAT: this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 07-21-2003 07:26: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]</font>
Slydog
New member
Well Rich,
Thank you for taking the time to explain that so very well. I'm going to print this and study it and if you don't mind I will have a question or 3 for ya maybe in the next day or so? Damn this is good stuff and answers many questions for me.
Thank you again sir
sly
Rich, do you think maybe on your next video you could maybe show the diferant howls and a + and - way to make each? just a thought?
Thank you for taking the time to explain that so very well. I'm going to print this and study it and if you don't mind I will have a question or 3 for ya maybe in the next day or so? Damn this is good stuff and answers many questions for me.
Thank you again sir
sly
Rich, do you think maybe on your next video you could maybe show the diferant howls and a + and - way to make each? just a thought?
Maineiac the original
New member
The lights are on. And this time somebody IS HOME.
Thank you so much Rich. I appreciate the time you took to teach us. I just read that three time. I just printed it and put it in the front of the 3-ring binder.
The question that I had written down, when I read it was not what I wanted to ask.
I have to re-read it some more I have a few questions. I know what I want to ask I just have to figure out how to explain what I mean.
Thank you so much Rich. I appreciate the time you took to teach us. I just read that three time. I just printed it and put it in the front of the 3-ring binder.
The question that I had written down, when I read it was not what I wanted to ask.
I have to re-read it some more I have a few questions. I know what I want to ask I just have to figure out how to explain what I mean.
No Shoes
New member
So that's what I've been doing wrong. All this time I was whistling and going here poochie, poochie. No wonder I ain't killed one yet. Just kidding. Seriously though.. Is there anything in print other than here on this stuff you're talking about.
No Shoes
New member
Never mind, after pulling my head from my ass, I looked a little further down the list
and found the book titles.
and found the book titles.
Kevin Lukens
New member
HELLO RICH $ TYLER
1oldcoyote
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2022
- Messages
- 135
Hello Rich, I have conversed with you. Many moons ago on another predator site.
Like 19 ?
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