$40 an hour? Jeez I must be in the wrong union. Making $19 here and I've been with the same company since 1974. What I like is the union prevents favortism and extra perks for certain people. Prevents company for just canning you cause you disagree with certain things. Prevents company from docking pay when their dam timeclocks arent working. Bad thing,......the lazy guy gets just as much protection as the next fella who busts their ass. Have had many grievances since starting. Won some, lost some. Either way it was good to be able to sit down with management and get a consensus about what is right or wrong, and how to proceed. Just an opinion,........ and I know what they are like. You guys have a great day. GO PACKERS
Question about Union's
- Thread starter bennett454
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
emrah,
Nobody is forcing you to join a Union...dont like them, easy solution...dont join. Do your own thing and call it good. Just dont whine like a small child that others make the choice to work under a Union.
A few questions:
Companies are "sqeeky clean"???
Why is it OK for a company to maximize profit under the "fair market"...but not OK for workers to maximize their profit (labor) under the "fair market"?
Like I said, when the company endorsed "chronyism" as you call it stops, I'd be more than happy to see it end on the Union side. Until that happens, I'm quite content standing up for the rights of the working class...
Oh, and who the hell says your labor isnt worth $40 an hour??...in particular when company CEO's and their chronies find no problem taking compensation that makes $40/hour look like chicken feed?
The biggest thing a Union provides is the ability to negotiate on a level playing field on issues that effect the work force and the work place. Without that, you BEG from a company. United you bargain...divided you beg...simple as that.
Nobody is forcing you to join a Union...dont like them, easy solution...dont join. Do your own thing and call it good. Just dont whine like a small child that others make the choice to work under a Union.
A few questions:
Companies are "sqeeky clean"???
Why is it OK for a company to maximize profit under the "fair market"...but not OK for workers to maximize their profit (labor) under the "fair market"?
Like I said, when the company endorsed "chronyism" as you call it stops, I'd be more than happy to see it end on the Union side. Until that happens, I'm quite content standing up for the rights of the working class...
Oh, and who the hell says your labor isnt worth $40 an hour??...in particular when company CEO's and their chronies find no problem taking compensation that makes $40/hour look like chicken feed?
The biggest thing a Union provides is the ability to negotiate on a level playing field on issues that effect the work force and the work place. Without that, you BEG from a company. United you bargain...divided you beg...simple as that.
chasendeer
New member
The 40 to 18 an hour scale is for two differant jobs. I'm a member of IBEW local 180 for 13 years, and LOVE IT!! Been with the same shop since day one. You see alot come and go, there is a reason for that, if you know what you are doing, you will work.Remember the union only sets the minimum wage that you can make and are free to make more.
Just had the company Xmas party last night there must have been some bad ice in the drinks.
Just had the company Xmas party last night there must have been some bad ice in the drinks.
sweetnectar
New member
If I was running a large company there would be zero need for it to be unionized. Some companies treat all employees very well and there is no need for a union. Unfortunately, some people run things dishonestly, or without equal regard to their employees, thus creating demand for unions.
So to answer your question, if you want to get paid more for doing the same amount or less work get into a union. People that belong to a union on average make more money for the work they perform than nonunion. That is how the numbers come out...good, bad, right, wrong, indifferent, or bla bla bla.
Personally I don't care for unions when I watch the union guys stop work and start heading back to the shop so they can be done with work exactly at 5:00 when they could be more productive if they simply stayed a little longer to get er done than burn hours of wasted time to travel all the way back to finish 15 minutes of work. They should do what is best for the company and get the rewards for it as well, not just do what is best for the union, and waste or dimminish a companies ability to write a fatter pay check if the fatter paycheck goes to all the employees, not just the CEO.
So to answer your question, if you want to get paid more for doing the same amount or less work get into a union. People that belong to a union on average make more money for the work they perform than nonunion. That is how the numbers come out...good, bad, right, wrong, indifferent, or bla bla bla.
Personally I don't care for unions when I watch the union guys stop work and start heading back to the shop so they can be done with work exactly at 5:00 when they could be more productive if they simply stayed a little longer to get er done than burn hours of wasted time to travel all the way back to finish 15 minutes of work. They should do what is best for the company and get the rewards for it as well, not just do what is best for the union, and waste or dimminish a companies ability to write a fatter pay check if the fatter paycheck goes to all the employees, not just the CEO.
BuzzH
Well-known member
sweetnectar,
I agree with you in that if I personally ran a company, I'd treat my employees well...mainly because I've seen them treat employees like a door mat. But, I'd also support their right to organize if they wanted to.
The one thing I disagree with is that employees should be FORCED to work more than 8 hours unless the employee and the company have agreed to over-time pay or the like. Over-time should not be mandatory, it should be voluntary and the employee's choice, period.
Just in case you were wondering, Union people died for an 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, etc....and I dont want anyone forcing me into working more than that unless I choose to. I'm not a fuggin' slave to the company...I'm an employee and I demand to be treated as such.
I think that in most cases, not many people with a firing brain cell, are going to cut off a job that will take 15 minutes more to complete. Just dont see it where I work and I dont do it. But, I also fully expect compensation for my additional work. Truth be told, I donate an ass-pile of time each year and dont get anything in return, not even a thank-you. However, I'm the one making that call...not being forced or told to do it. There-in lies the difference, I'm choosing to do it. I dont expect others to donate a single minute without compensation. That said, I also cant...and wont, tolerate anyone stealing time from a company either.
If theres decent communication between a Company and a Union, most problems can be dealt with in a quick, fair, and efficient manner. Thats what I strive for in negotiations, and largely what I get.
I agree with you in that if I personally ran a company, I'd treat my employees well...mainly because I've seen them treat employees like a door mat. But, I'd also support their right to organize if they wanted to.
The one thing I disagree with is that employees should be FORCED to work more than 8 hours unless the employee and the company have agreed to over-time pay or the like. Over-time should not be mandatory, it should be voluntary and the employee's choice, period.
Just in case you were wondering, Union people died for an 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, etc....and I dont want anyone forcing me into working more than that unless I choose to. I'm not a fuggin' slave to the company...I'm an employee and I demand to be treated as such.
I think that in most cases, not many people with a firing brain cell, are going to cut off a job that will take 15 minutes more to complete. Just dont see it where I work and I dont do it. But, I also fully expect compensation for my additional work. Truth be told, I donate an ass-pile of time each year and dont get anything in return, not even a thank-you. However, I'm the one making that call...not being forced or told to do it. There-in lies the difference, I'm choosing to do it. I dont expect others to donate a single minute without compensation. That said, I also cant...and wont, tolerate anyone stealing time from a company either.
If theres decent communication between a Company and a Union, most problems can be dealt with in a quick, fair, and efficient manner. Thats what I strive for in negotiations, and largely what I get.
emrah1028
New member
Buzz,
No one said companies should force anyone to work more than what they get paid for. Or work more hours than they get paid for. And I never said I supported price gouging, unfair practices or illegal activities by private companies either.
As for having a choice? Look at what's going on with Boeing wanting to move to South Carolina. The friggin' FEDARAL GOVERNMENT is trying to block a PRIVATE company from opening a plant there. WTF?
Locally in Minnesota, the unions and our coo-coo Moonbat Mark Dayton is trying to FORCE day care providers to join unions. It doesn't end there, but you get my point.
As for "whining", no one's whining. I'm merely stating a fact that as a private employer (former actually, as I shut down my remodeling business), I have, for the past 6 years, seen first hand the favoritism (inspectors, building officials, etc.) and highly inflated prices of union HVAC guys and plumbers.
And finally, let's remember that a private company has NO obligation to profit-share. None. A company's SOLE purpose is to keep the doors open. If you want to earn multi-million dollar mega-buck salaries like "evil" CEO's, then work for it. Bust your ass. Start your OWN company, then run it any way you choose. Good companies treat their employees right. They pay them well. They attract the best, highest-achieving and most productive talent - and keep them. Bad companies (or ones that are FORCED to hire bad employees) lose that high-end talent. Then those companies go out of business, or drastically change their business practices. That's the beauty of the free market.
But look what happened to GM? Chrysler? Taxpayer funded because they got bankrupted from the inside-out due in large part to unsustainable union contracts.
Emrah
No one said companies should force anyone to work more than what they get paid for. Or work more hours than they get paid for. And I never said I supported price gouging, unfair practices or illegal activities by private companies either.
As for having a choice? Look at what's going on with Boeing wanting to move to South Carolina. The friggin' FEDARAL GOVERNMENT is trying to block a PRIVATE company from opening a plant there. WTF?
Locally in Minnesota, the unions and our coo-coo Moonbat Mark Dayton is trying to FORCE day care providers to join unions. It doesn't end there, but you get my point.
As for "whining", no one's whining. I'm merely stating a fact that as a private employer (former actually, as I shut down my remodeling business), I have, for the past 6 years, seen first hand the favoritism (inspectors, building officials, etc.) and highly inflated prices of union HVAC guys and plumbers.
And finally, let's remember that a private company has NO obligation to profit-share. None. A company's SOLE purpose is to keep the doors open. If you want to earn multi-million dollar mega-buck salaries like "evil" CEO's, then work for it. Bust your ass. Start your OWN company, then run it any way you choose. Good companies treat their employees right. They pay them well. They attract the best, highest-achieving and most productive talent - and keep them. Bad companies (or ones that are FORCED to hire bad employees) lose that high-end talent. Then those companies go out of business, or drastically change their business practices. That's the beauty of the free market.
But look what happened to GM? Chrysler? Taxpayer funded because they got bankrupted from the inside-out due in large part to unsustainable union contracts.
Emrah
I'm in a union out of choice. I have my personal beefs with unions though imo, it is the lesser of two evils. I'll take the good unions offer along with my personal grumblings...
The part that gets me is the forced unions in certain states. It should be a choice to join one or not. I am not "forced" to join the NRA to own a gun, though I am a member to support my choice to own personal firearms.
my two coppers.
The part that gets me is the forced unions in certain states. It should be a choice to join one or not. I am not "forced" to join the NRA to own a gun, though I am a member to support my choice to own personal firearms.
my two coppers.
BuzzH
Well-known member
GM's piss poor handling of the company had nothing to do with Union contracts.
It had everything to do with mis-MANAGEMENT...GM was bankrupted by poor business decisions. Decisions that the UAW workers on the line had nothing to do with. Again, when the shit hits the fan, Management will not assume any of the responsibility and immediately asks its workforce to "share" in the hard times. I wouldnt have a problem with that if the UAW was an equal share-holder in the company and made 50% of the business decision. They dont make marketing decisions, they dont make decisions on business loans, etc. etc. etc....and there lies the rub. The UAW is fully expected to take reductions in benefits, reductions in pay, etc. because of the F-ups that management make. It isnt fair...and further by God it isnt right. Then to top it off, they hit the streets blaming Union Contracts for THEIR mis-management and the reason they're going broke? It takes balls...I'll say that.
The reason CEO's make mega-buck salaries is because of their workforce...unless they're a one person show. I'm not arguing that they shouldnt reap the rewards of assuming the risk...just find it ridiculous that you blame "unsustainable union contracts"(that management negotiated and agreed to)...while CEO's, senior execs, etc. pocket salaries in excess of 100's if not 1000's of times what their employees make.
Companies only want to assume the risk when they're being rewarded for it...not when they're losing their ass from same. Funny how that works.
It had everything to do with mis-MANAGEMENT...GM was bankrupted by poor business decisions. Decisions that the UAW workers on the line had nothing to do with. Again, when the shit hits the fan, Management will not assume any of the responsibility and immediately asks its workforce to "share" in the hard times. I wouldnt have a problem with that if the UAW was an equal share-holder in the company and made 50% of the business decision. They dont make marketing decisions, they dont make decisions on business loans, etc. etc. etc....and there lies the rub. The UAW is fully expected to take reductions in benefits, reductions in pay, etc. because of the F-ups that management make. It isnt fair...and further by God it isnt right. Then to top it off, they hit the streets blaming Union Contracts for THEIR mis-management and the reason they're going broke? It takes balls...I'll say that.
The reason CEO's make mega-buck salaries is because of their workforce...unless they're a one person show. I'm not arguing that they shouldnt reap the rewards of assuming the risk...just find it ridiculous that you blame "unsustainable union contracts"(that management negotiated and agreed to)...while CEO's, senior execs, etc. pocket salaries in excess of 100's if not 1000's of times what their employees make.
Companies only want to assume the risk when they're being rewarded for it...not when they're losing their ass from same. Funny how that works.
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Both good and bad with unions depending on the union and the company the union is in.
One thing all union members should know though, is that it is a federal law that you can request your union to refund the political contribution and other non-essential portion of dues that was taken from you as dues.
So, if you don't like your money going to the likes of the DNC to get someone like Obama elected you can get that money back. The unions I have been in the political contribution and other non-essential portion was around the 20% mark.
for more info do a search of "Beck Objection union"
http://www.mackinac.org/1021
One thing all union members should know though, is that it is a federal law that you can request your union to refund the political contribution and other non-essential portion of dues that was taken from you as dues.
So, if you don't like your money going to the likes of the DNC to get someone like Obama elected you can get that money back. The unions I have been in the political contribution and other non-essential portion was around the 20% mark.
for more info do a search of "Beck Objection union"
http://www.mackinac.org/1021
BuzzH
Well-known member
True...and a good point.
I know that our Union is done contributing based on R or D or I when it comes to politicians. If they arent pro-labor they arent getting a penny...no matter their affiliation with political party.
I know that our Union is done contributing based on R or D or I when it comes to politicians. If they arent pro-labor they arent getting a penny...no matter their affiliation with political party.
But I must add, it is tricky to do without some research. The timing has to be watched well if you want to be a Beck objector and the letter must be crafted very well. Then follow any instructions from there because usually after the next years anniversary date of your hiring after you object you have to write a letter again to make them aware you want to continue. If you do not do this within 30 days of when you are supposed to do it you are back in the full union and cannot ever get out again without quitting the job. The union will also call you a "non-member" or say you "resigned" from the union but don't fret, you by law have all the legal rights and union protection you are paying for. You will however give up some rights, depending on the union. Some of these rights may be: Not running for any elections, not allowed to vote, not allowed at union meetings, and more. Doesn't seem right, but those are the BS tactics they use. I did my Beck objections after reading enough liberal crap in union news letters and the union telling me that the DNC was my only option for voting. But like I said, all unions differ. But if you are a staunch republican, you may want to look and see how much of your dues are funneled to a certain political party. When you object, your union will by law have to supply you with a breakdown of where your dues go.
BuzzH
Well-known member
As a partial dues payer...you shouldnt be afforded the same things as those that pay full boat.
Seems pretty fair to me.
If you're swaying your individual vote from what you read in a union newsletter...you need your head examined.
Seems pretty fair to me.
If you're swaying your individual vote from what you read in a union newsletter...you need your head examined.
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Wyodeerhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,150
What he said.
Union labor may be a little more expensive but you get what you pay for. Why do union workers make more? It's because they are worth it. They receive some of the best training (in my local its 5 years), have many options for continuing education and have access to schools owned by the union to stay on top of the new technology etc. Our apprentices go to school for 6 weeks every year. While non union apprentices usually do a correspondence course so all their training is on the job.
For me the best part of being in a union is the attitude. I work with guys that put in the time to stay on top of all the new code changes, new technologies and they WANT to be better at their trade. I can't say the same with the non union companies I worked for. I've noticed more work gets done when the workers are happy and get paid well. We give a lot back to the community as well, not only as a union which does so much but individually as workers within our company. I work in the service dept doing a lot of troubleshooting. Some old school union members may frown upon what I do but I work through my breaks and lunch and give that time on residential calls to the customer. I'm a working guy and I know how it is for a lot of people. Giving away my time may not be smart, but I figure that down the road when they have money and need a lot of work done they will call us.
And lastly this may not apply to all unions but I feel more safe on the job being union. We have lockout tagout procedures, safety gear, education, safety meetings, all trained in CPR/first aid etc. When working with electricity having the confidence in your coworkers helps a lot. When I was non union we would constantly get guys that didn't have the electrical knowledge that they should of had. And the company would have these guys working by themselves. Not only are they a danger to themselves but they could harm someone else. One coworker at the last non union place I worked took the neutral off a service to shorten it because it looked "too long". He did this while leaving the power on. He didn't have the education to know that this was dangerous and could harm the equipment. He was lucky and walked away from that situation without getting hurt. But he did burn up every piece of electronics in that building. This summer an apprentice was killed up here working on live circuits. No journeyman around. Two things we do not do in the union.
I do not go out trying to get people to join a union. If they ask me I give them my opinion and let them make their own decision. But I have noticed that a lot of guys that bad mouth unions are guys that have never been in a union, tried to get into a union and couldn't or just bitch about unions because they are ignorant and do not know anything regarding unions.
the nikster
Well-known member
Seems we have gotten off topic...(but I still read every word!)
174in
Well-known member
There are good unions and bad unions just the same with non union companies good ones and bad ones.I worked for a union in the 90's and would say it wasnt any good they took my dues but I was still forced to work 60-70 hour weeks to keep my job.A union is like a 3rd party in the work force if they do their job yours will be much better if they dont they are just aking your money.Do some reasearch on the union you will be joining and talk to some of its members and see how they feel about it that will give you a good idea on wether or not they will be right for you or not.
thecrittergitter
Well-known member
I can tell you from personal experience, there is no bigger group of whiners on the planet than the union workers i've had to deal with. holy crap, i've never seen a bigger bunch of bullchit and whining and arrogance, let alone guys that are so overpaid its ridiculous.
That being said, i'm sure there are some good union groups out there that are busting their azzes and getting paid what their worth. Every trade will have the slackers and the hard workers. But i can tell you that the MAJORITY of Pipeline union workers are catching a free fricken ride!!
Nothing is a bigger slap in the face than working your azz off in school, going to college for 4-5 years getting a great engineering degree, then working your azz off to become a project manager for a multimillion dollar company, to be forced to hire a general laborer who can barely tie his fuggin shoes without help, at a higher wage than you are getting paid............yea, sounds fair
Or how about having to fire somebody, yes having to fire somebody, because the stupid ass labor streward caught the hoe operator getting out of his hoe to move a bunch of pipe skids that the laborer SHOULD have had done but was on a smoke break. Who the hell comes up with this shit, fire the guy for wanting to get chit done and not hold up a 60 million dollar show to wait for some asswipe that didn't get his job done.
Or better yet, paying all our Foreman $3,600 per week and give them a brand new truck for them to beat the chit out of. Oh, and when I had to drive out and hand deliver their checks each week, one guy was sleeping in his truck (three times same guy) and another was pounding the hair down on our safety chick..........Yea, you guys are worth it.
Oh, let me add that all the union guys didn't want to have to go to the bank to cash their checks each week so they TOLD us non union guys that WE had to drive their paychecks to the bank each week, cash them, and drive the envelope with cash to them! Lazy azz pos fuggers as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, they tried to get me run off the job for chewing their azzes about leaving at 5 pm but all putting until 6 pm on their timecards. They were Furious that i would question their methods.
I can tell you that virtually any union job I've ever been associated with can be done for at least 20% cheaper if it was done non union. Friggin bunch of wasted money.
Anyway, there may be some good ones out there that don't work this way, Buzz may be part of one, who knows...............all I know is what i've seen and had to deal with and its about as much bullchit as i've ever seen.
Sorry, i was raised to work hard and get paid what your worth. You work your azz off, you should be rewarded. you shouldn't be rewarded and paid more than your worth just because you can drive to your local and sign up for a free ticket............
Go ahead Buzz............I've suiting up in my armour and ready for your throwback
Wyodeerhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,150
Like stated above ceittergetter unions are not perfect either. But a lot of what you just shared isn't even union related. Could easily go on non union. If they were breaking the contract why didn't you do something about it?
And how do you know they are overpaid? Because you think they are? I would like to see how one determines if someone is overpaid.
And don't cry on here because you went to school, spent a ton of money and have someone who didn't make more you. Sorry they went to a trade school instead of an overpriced college. Maybe college tuition isn't high but I'm making an assumption like you.
Is 5 years in a trade school not comparable to a college degree?
Maybe you should work harder and get paid what you are worth. hell, engineers are a dime a dozen right now. They have always been overpaid. Some have seen the light and are using our apprenticeship program to pay off their college debt.
I stand by my opinion that the wankers on wall steet are bums and feel they are entitled to make lots of money just because they went to school...
And how do you know they are overpaid? Because you think they are? I would like to see how one determines if someone is overpaid.
And don't cry on here because you went to school, spent a ton of money and have someone who didn't make more you. Sorry they went to a trade school instead of an overpriced college. Maybe college tuition isn't high but I'm making an assumption like you.
Is 5 years in a trade school not comparable to a college degree?
Maybe you should work harder and get paid what you are worth. hell, engineers are a dime a dozen right now. They have always been overpaid. Some have seen the light and are using our apprenticeship program to pay off their college debt.
I stand by my opinion that the wankers on wall steet are bums and feel they are entitled to make lots of money just because they went to school...
fowladdict
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,546
When they make more than the engineer that designed the project, they are overpaid.
Yes, but I don't think that is the norm. In my 15 years of experience in engineering most have all started from the bottom and reaped the union wages coming into the job with no experience. When your kid grows up are you going to tell him not to go to college because the Union will train him?
Maybe that is true where you work. But good engineers are still worth their salt.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
crittergetter,
Sounds like some enabling was going on...you may have been doing it yourself.
If some SOB told me to deliver his paycheck to his bank or in cash...he'd be chasing his check down the street in the wind, if I even bothered to bring it.
I also dont see how a union steward has the authority to "fire" anyone...Typcially in any company, or government agency, there are only a handful of people with that authority. Not knowing the circumstances involved in that firing you mentioned, as a union VP, Safety Rep, and a Steward...I'd of made sure that the company had a damn good reason to fire that guy. Unless their was a major infraction of some kind, as spelled out in the contract or the safety code, I dont see how anyone was fired. Like I say, I dont know the circumstances and dont know your contract or JHA's etc., so its all speculation.
As to stealing time...I dont do it...dont condone it, and I can tell you for a 100% fact that our local or national would not defend some a-hole that gets caught doing it. Matter of fact, if employees f-up and do things against safety procedures, against our master agreement, etc....and come crawling to the Union for help...I investigate the whole thing. If the employee is in violation, they just have to deal with the consequences...period.
I cant be filing grievences that the Union doesnt have a leg to stand on. Its a bad practice professionally for the Union to try to defend poor work ethics and clear violations of safety, etc. in the workplace. Typically, the Unions have negotiated and had a seat at the table for those exact things regarding safety, master agreements/contracts, etc. Credibility and trust between a Union and a Company/Agency takes a long time to build...and a short time to tear it down. I'm not going to tear it down when an employee is in the wrong...cant do it...and wont do it.
I'm pretty lucky in that we have built a good working relationship between management and the union in my local. We have solved many, many problems quickly, efficiently, and JOINTLY without even having to file a single grievance. Let alone taking a case to the NLRB, etc.
But, dont take that to mean that I wont ever file a grievance...or that I get pushed around by management. I can assure you that any grievance I file will result in a "W" in the win column of the Union...I dont play for second place and Management has been made aware of that fact.
When a company and a union are working properly most things can be dealt with professionally, by adults. I'm no fan of a union or a company running around like loose cannons...
Sounds like some enabling was going on...you may have been doing it yourself.
If some SOB told me to deliver his paycheck to his bank or in cash...he'd be chasing his check down the street in the wind, if I even bothered to bring it.
I also dont see how a union steward has the authority to "fire" anyone...Typcially in any company, or government agency, there are only a handful of people with that authority. Not knowing the circumstances involved in that firing you mentioned, as a union VP, Safety Rep, and a Steward...I'd of made sure that the company had a damn good reason to fire that guy. Unless their was a major infraction of some kind, as spelled out in the contract or the safety code, I dont see how anyone was fired. Like I say, I dont know the circumstances and dont know your contract or JHA's etc., so its all speculation.
As to stealing time...I dont do it...dont condone it, and I can tell you for a 100% fact that our local or national would not defend some a-hole that gets caught doing it. Matter of fact, if employees f-up and do things against safety procedures, against our master agreement, etc....and come crawling to the Union for help...I investigate the whole thing. If the employee is in violation, they just have to deal with the consequences...period.
I cant be filing grievences that the Union doesnt have a leg to stand on. Its a bad practice professionally for the Union to try to defend poor work ethics and clear violations of safety, etc. in the workplace. Typically, the Unions have negotiated and had a seat at the table for those exact things regarding safety, master agreements/contracts, etc. Credibility and trust between a Union and a Company/Agency takes a long time to build...and a short time to tear it down. I'm not going to tear it down when an employee is in the wrong...cant do it...and wont do it.
I'm pretty lucky in that we have built a good working relationship between management and the union in my local. We have solved many, many problems quickly, efficiently, and JOINTLY without even having to file a single grievance. Let alone taking a case to the NLRB, etc.
But, dont take that to mean that I wont ever file a grievance...or that I get pushed around by management. I can assure you that any grievance I file will result in a "W" in the win column of the Union...I dont play for second place and Management has been made aware of that fact.
When a company and a union are working properly most things can be dealt with professionally, by adults. I'm no fan of a union or a company running around like loose cannons...
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BuzzH
Well-known member
fowladdict1,
Good workers of any stripe are worth their salt...and their pay. Thats regardless of their education, degree, or apprenticeship.
You're full of crap that a good laborer isnt worth as much as an engineer, I can tell you stories about engineers that arent worth 2 cents an hour...
I can also show you projects where the guy(s) with no degree saved the engineers ass, big-time.
Good workers of any stripe are worth their salt...and their pay. Thats regardless of their education, degree, or apprenticeship.
You're full of crap that a good laborer isnt worth as much as an engineer, I can tell you stories about engineers that arent worth 2 cents an hour...
I can also show you projects where the guy(s) with no degree saved the engineers ass, big-time.
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