Public Land Trail Cam Etiquette

[Moserkr]

I met some guys dropping cams all over the woods in one of my spots. It gets hit pretty hard during rifle unless you go really deep, but is empty during archery. I've run cams out there before too but Im hesitant leaving them out during rifle. But that made me think...

Has anyone ever pulled the cards on other people's public land cams and then just put them back? Download the data, don't delete, put the cam back as found. My opinion is that it's fair game on public land and is a no harm no foul situation. I will be carrying a card reader with me from now on. If the cam is locked in a box then I'll leave it be. Otherwise I cannot find an argument in my mind why its unethical. Thoughts?

 

[Mallardsx2]

Define nefarious.

Are we talking Roman Helmet situation here?

 

[bigsky2]

Ill be completely honest, if I found a cell cam during the season in Montana I'd be tempted to put something in front of the lens. Not sure if I'd check someone's card or not. I wouldn't want anyone checking my cards. I lock mine though.

 

[recon6036]

There is one in Wyoming that’s been in the same spot for a few years now. Appears that it is maintained. I have never considered checking the card, but I did hold up a sign with my email address written on it, asking the owner to send me Elk pics…..no luck though.

 

[Elky Welky]

I'm not messing with someone's private property, as much as I would like to get those peepy pervy trail cams off public land. This poll does raise an interesting question on the legality of checking the card.

A prosecutor could charge a criminal offense here, but how is pretty interesting. Using Montana as an example (sorry, these are the statutes I am familiar with. Worth looking them up in your own states), it would be really interesting to see it tried. Under both a theory of criminal mischief (vandalism) or theft, there still has to be either a showing of:

Criminal Mischief: "without consent tampers with property of another or public property so as to endanger or interfere with persons or property or its use;" 45-6-101(b) MCA

No interference with use, so that one is out.

Theft:

"(1) A person commits the offense of theft when the person purposely or knowingly obtains or exerts unauthorized control over property of the owner and:

(a) has the purpose of depriving the owner of the property;

(b) purposely or knowingly uses, conceals, or abandons the property in a manner that deprives the owner of the property; or..." 45-6-301 MCA

No purpose to deprive the owner of the property under any subsection, so that's also out.

BUT, if I were to charge it as a prosecutor, I think the avenue would be under Unlawful Use of a Computer, which states:

"a person commits the offense of unlawful use of a computer when the person knowingly or purposely and without authorization:

... ...

(b) obtains the use or access of any computer, computer system, or computer network without consent of the owner;"

If a trail cam qualifies as a computer, then this one under sub b could work, which means messing with the card could lead to this sentence:

"A person convicted of the offense of unlawful use of a computer involving loss of property not exceeding $1,500 in value or when no loss can be articulated shall be fined not to exceed $1,500 or be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months, or both."

 

[TOGIE]

i vote unethical.

maybe unlawful.

but we don't need laws to be ethical, right?


right?

 

[Big Sky Guy]

I quit putting out trail cameras. I just find other's and do exactly as you laid out. The only photos I will delete are the ones that get taken of myself if I accidentally walk in front of the camera before finding it. There is one that's been out past two seasons, next time I'm planning to go up there I'm going to take a change of batteries for it to be nice.

Pro-tip: carry a micro sd adapter as well. Most use the standard SD cards now, but I've come across some with the micro ones.

Edit: For all those on here claiming otherwise, if you came across ice cold beer in the backcountry stored in a snow drift or stream and clearly abandoned would you also consider that criminal mischief, unethical or otherwise unlawful to crack open a cold one??

 

[cgasner1]

I don’t mess with them mainly because you don’t know how many you have walked past. I’ve been sent pictures of myself on people I knows trail cams. Also have had about 6 of mine stolen

 

[COEngineer]

Property left on public land should be considered trash and removed by anyone who finds it. You can camp in most places for maximum 2 weeks, but cameras are not camping gear, so unless expressly excepted by some specific forest, I argue they are forfeit.

 

[Elky Welky]

clearly abandoned

This is the most important distinction. Trail cams are also quite clearly not abandoned, so it is an apples to oranges comparison. I think comparing them more to coming up on a campsite would be more apt: would you sleep in someone else's tent when it is still clearly being used?

Funny you use that example though, I can honestly say I have come across two beers (PBR) abandoned about 2 miles up one of my all time favorite elk hunting drainages at the end of a hunt with my old man. It was truly awesome to drink beer at the end of a great day while hiking out.

 

[nrpate05]

Property left on public land should be considered trash and removed by anyone who finds it. You can camp in most places for maximum 2 weeks, but cameras are not camping gear, so unless expressly excepted by some specific forest, I argue they are forfeit.

Even if they're legally allowed to be there?

It seems unethical. I wouldn't want someone taking a siesta in my tent during the day while I'm out.

 

[Elky Welky]

but we don't need laws to be ethical, right?

Right. This is why homicide should be legal. Making homicide illegal only punishes law-abiding citizens that wouldn't kill other people in the first place. A criminal is already going to break the law, regardless of if we make something illegal.

(this is a joke)

 

[TOGIE]

Man, you guys are quick to claim something is abandoned and therefore trash.

I've stashed beers in streams or elsewhere many times to keep cold before setting off on 12 hour alpine peak linkup or something similar.

If I came back and saw some rando cracking it open then I could definitely see myself doing something illegal.

 

[Elky Welky]

Man, you guys are quick to claim something is abandoned and therefore trash.

I've stashed beers in streams or elsewhere many times to keep cold before setting off on 12 hour alpine peak linkup or something similar.

If I came back and saw some rando cracking it open then I could definitely see myself doing something illegal.

To be very clear, the beers my dad and I found were definitely at least a few weeks old based on location, time of year, other evidence that the site was abandoned, and lack of others around. Slightly skunky but still delightful, and though just PBR, certainly not trash.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

I usually just roll my eyes, maybe wave, and keep on walking whenever I come across one.

I did find one set up overlooking a well used camp site that I was camping in in one time... there may or may not have been some nefarious activity after that.

 

[Bhoesl]

I usually just leave them alone, maybe wave or something. The only time I’ve checked the pictures on someone else’s camera was at a wallow I hunt almost every year, once I arrived to find a camera already there so I looked through the images but replaced the card without deleting anything.

I think as long as nothing was tampered with, I wouldn’t be too upset about someone doing the same with one of mine.

I have also had cameras stolen, and one that was regularly turned off. First time I checked it, I thought I had just forgotten to turn it on, but when it happened again with the same camera in the same place, I figured out someone had been deleting all the pictures and turning it off.

 

[Dakotakid]

I saw one at an alpine lake that we hiked into, we just waived. Personally, I think they should be prohibited, it diminishes nature and is frankly creepy.

 

[Moserkr]

Funny y'all mention beers... my buddy shot his first deer and was solo so I drove 2 hours and hiked in 2 miles to help him debone and pack it out. I stashed 2 great beers in a small creek halfway there, off trail on a fairly steep hillside where I was sure no one would see. Less than 1.5 hours later we get back to the creek and there is only 1 beer left... AHHHH!!!!! I gave it to my friend as he earned it with that deer. I curse the SOB who stole the other haha. But that item is tangible, gone. Trail cam pics are not.

@Elky Welky You bring up an interesting point about the criminal aspect of it. Had not thought of that. Yes I would absolutely consider it tampering, but we are not talking about the crime of the century. Maybe a big outfitter in a coveted unit may throw a stink, but it's going to be pretty hard to prove with evidence, and Id be surprised if any law enforcement willingly "investigated" it.

I also think the law may consider the property abandoned after 2 weeks in the woods. That would be an argument against tampering. A campsite left unattended for more than 2 weeks is considered abandoned as far as I understand.

I am absolutely against removing cams or deleting someone else's pics. I also would have zero issues if someone checked mine and returned it as found, or if they were banned all together. I do like seeing whats out there for fun and I do not feel like I have any advantage in killing anything where I live (CA).

We should do another thread with tree stands on public land and using them lol.

 

[texwest44]

Just leave it. I mean grab the photos if you want - public spaces have no expectation of privacy, game cam guys have pretty much come to terms with this, I think - but otherwise just go on about your day and remember where it is for future reference (and report it if you're pretty sure it has been illegally set).

But anyway, first of all, unless it's specifically labeled, you have no idea whose it is or why it's there. Default to "not enough information, no action" behavior in these situations, like you normally do. Just remember where it is, move on with your day.

Secondly, there are a ton of game cams put out in public spaces for some sort of wildlife/ecosystem project, and they are labeled very poorly (regardless of what rules or procedures might cite), and people like me are tasked with finding them with very little information outside of a dodgy, shifty GPS pin. If I find out you're making my job more difficult than it already is, I will 100% call your moms or wives or whoever controls your lives and rat you out.

Thirdly, let people live their lives in peace. You can get the same information they'll have, if you desire, and no one really has an advantage specifically. And keep in mind pictures make photographers, not hunters; nothing says whoever puts out those cams has any better chance of punching their tag on Local Hank than you or anyone else who hunts that area.

Fourthly, this person is probably looking for good places to hunt animals in peace, and is putting cameras out in an effort to reduce wasted time. You can easily suggest their time is being wasted just by walking in front of the camera as much as possible, filling the camera with noise and trash. What's the point of one good buck if there's a couple of knuckleheads who come out here every weekend walking up and down this trail? The camera setter likely can't infer any actual wildlife activity in the larger area, they just know you're there a lot and are annoying as hell.

This trail cam etiquette guidance is a service provided by texwest enterprises, you now owe me $60.

 

[mtmuley]

Don't touch other people's stuff. mtmuley