Prohibit Sage-Grouse Hunting In Montana

[katqanna]

The other night I was pulling up LC 2040, where Paradise Valley rancher Rep. Alan Redfield wanted to remove the PUBLIC part of the required public access hunting requirement during the general season to receive FWP help for game damage. At any rate, while at Montana law look up, I thought I would check and see if anything was up yet for 2015. Sen. John Brenden, owner of Scobey Farms, from Scobey, MT, appears anxious to beat the rush to stick it to Montana hunters in the 2015 legislative session. He has already filed (drafting in process) LC0023 - Prohibit sage grouse hunting in Montana.

LC 0023

So heres some back story. "Sage grouse With the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service ordered to decide whether to list the sage grouse as an endangered species by 2015, Western states have been working to establish their own management plans. 'If you think the wolf was a big issue for Montana, it’s a piker compared to sage grouse,' said Sen. Bradley Hamlett, D-Cascade, who sits on the council and the governor’s advisory committee. The governor has appointed a sage grouse advisory committee which has scheduled 10 meetings between now and October. The plan is to have a draft out in October with a final report recommended by late November. Gov. Steve Bullock would then have until early January to make any adjustments with a plan finalized by the end of January, said Jeff Hagener, director of Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. Council member Sen. John Brenden, R-Scobey, suggested that halting the state’s hunting season for sage grouse may satisfy concerns expressed by some of the state’s partners. Hagener noted that, scientifically, hunting hasn’t been seen as affecting the bird’s population, but the perception is that if oil and gas leasing may be disallowed in certain areas because the birds are few, then hunting shouldn’t be allowed."

Let's not let science get in the way of wildlife management, by any means.

"In their March 2010 listing decision, the USFWS concluded that the key threats to the continued survival of sage - grouse are 1) habitat loss, fragmentation, and modification and 2) inadequacy of existing regulatory mechanisms, particularly in relation to energy and other development . The USFWS also evaluated the 'utilization' (e.g. hunting) of sage - grouse and concluded that 'the greater sage - grouse is not threatened by overutilization for commercial, recreational, scientific, or educational purposes now or in the foreseeable future' "
.
Greater Sage Grouse Conservation Strategy

 

[bigskyblueman]

Brenden despises hunters and fishermen and is still out for revenge in the wake of 161 and the Stream Access laws' survival. He pulls a lot of weight in the Legislature , the oil and coal companies have his ear, and we need to support his defeat if at all possible in order to protect our hunting and fishing traditions.

 

[1_pointer]

That seems short sighted, IMO. The best way to keep the bird off the list, IMO, is to keep interest in it high. This promotes proactive management IME. One of the best ways to do so is to allow a limited take of them. When UT when to a draw, 2 birds per permit, it seems like more people hunted them than before.

 

[mtmiller]

That seems short sighted, IMO. The best way to keep the bird off the list, IMO, is to keep interest in it high. This promotes proactive management IME. One of the best ways to do so is to allow a limited take of them. When UT when to a draw, 2 birds per permit, it seems like more people hunted them than before.

Tyler, don't worry, the interest is very high outside the hunting community. Keeping them off or on the list won't decided by upland sportsmen.

It is pretty interesting comparing Greater sage-grouse hunting opps by states with the season. I will see if I can find the one I put together, but wouldn't know how to attach a SS to the thread.

 

[Big Fin]

Brenden will use hunters as any scapegoat he can. With the sage grouse versus oil and gas issue, he has hunters right where he wants them, even though the science shows hunting has virtually no impact on long-term numbers.

Science has never been a deterrent to Brenden's ideas. Not sure if it is flat out hatred, spite, or ignorance, but his bills can always be relied upon to be a rallying cry for hunters and anglers. This is a prime example.

If good ideas were electricity, Brenden would have lived his life in total darkness.

 

[RobG]

That seems short sighted, IMO. The best way to keep the bird off the list, IMO, is to keep interest in it high. This promotes proactive management IME. One of the best ways to do so is to allow a limited take of them. When UT when to a draw, 2 birds per permit, it seems like more people hunted them than before.

He is interested in oil, not the grouse. He's saying that if it the grouse are so rare that you can't drill, then you shouldn't be able to hunt them, i.e. make it as painful as possible to everyone. They named Toole county after him. Little known fact.

 

[katqanna]

I hate playing defense and seeing what we went through this last session, I have been keeping an eye out. I much prefer an offensive position. So I thought if we started exposing these things as soon as we knew about them, we might just get them nipped in the bud before they ever get rolling. The court of public opinion and shaming people to do the right thing are becoming more necessary.

This placeholder bill is more than just targeting hunters, it will be used to try and separate non-consumptive advocates. I sent the email to all my lists and I got a reply back from an environmentalist, who describes himself as hardcore, asking, "So what is your position in this? Are you advocating saving Sage Grouse so hunters can kill them?" I replied that I am an ethical hunter with a great respect for wildlife and habitat conservation. I also explained about many early conservationists being hunters and fishers. They were out there, they saw the need. I pointed out Roosevelt and Leopold.

I also explained that I am for energy development that is clean, beneficial to the communities for longterm, not just raping a community and leaving them with the mess. There is a reason. My inlaw grandfather in Texas, who was a farmer and rancher, bought into the mining companies sales pitch about resource extracting, just like some of his neighbors. So he contracted with them on quite a bit of his ranch land. Then he noticed calves being born with deformities, or just outright abortions. Adults began dying, "his" deer began dying. Uranium kind of does that. Grandpa died of cancer. That land is totally fubar for millions of years.

I explained to him that Brenden didnt care about the Sage Grouse or its environment or the place holder would have been about their habitat. This is not just against hunters but is trying to gain support from non-consumptives, for all the wrong reasons (which science proves), against the hunters - divide and conquer. Thankfully, he understood and now agrees that this bill needs to be stopped. We need to expose the intentions of this bill, which is just a shell game. Hopefully, we can get that point across to non-consumptives and they will not be lured by a false "fix".

 

[RobG]

Unfortunately Kat, a lot of environmental group leaders/employees aren't keen on hunting or saving habitat just so we can kill the inhabitants with weapons. Killing with wolves is ok though.

 

[katqanna]

Rob, I have had this discussion so many times with non-consumptive advocates that are against hunting. I ask them if they eat commercial beef, pork or chicken. When they invariably answer yes, I describe to them the general raising conditions and what goes on with the antibiotics and such. Then I ask them, which is more humane to the animals? Their animal raising conditions for their meat choices or my awesome wild life with one lethal shot? I prefer my pen and cage free meat with natures healthy wild benefits. I also ask them if they view the eventual death by predator (ripping carnage while they are still alive) or slow death to elements nicer than my single shot?

 

[katqanna]

MtMiller was curious about state comparisons on Sage-grouse hunting so he created an excel chart (2012). He thought y'all might also be interested and if there are any mistakes to let him know. I converted it to a pdf for universal viewing (you can hit the plus button and enlarge, for those of you with older eyes) and made it downloadable.

Sage Grouse Hunting State Comparison chart

 

[Ben Lamb]

Brenden will use hunters as any scapegoat he can. With the sage grouse versus oil and gas issue, he has hunters right where he wants them, even though the science shows hunting has virtually no impact on long-term numbers.

Science has never been a deterrent to Brenden's ideas. Not sure if it is flat out hatred, spite, or ignorance, but his bills can always be relied upon to be a rallying cry for hunters and anglers. This is a prime example.

If good ideas were electricity, Brenden would have lived his life in total darkness.

It's a bill that more than likely is brought about to "share the pain" when it comes to Sage Grouse. The Oil & Gas Industry is actively spreading misinformation about predators & grouse, completely ignoring the one thing they called for during the House Nat. Resources Committee hearing in Billings: Peer reviewed science. The thought is that if Ag producers have to face sanctions due to a sage grouse listing, and O&G can't drill whenever, wherever they want, then hunters need to share the pain.

The funny thing here is: In WY, where they're working with the O&G industry to restore access funding, etc, sportsmen have also been working with industry to find ways to conserve grouse. In MT, the industry just attacks without offering any real solutions.

 

[Rat Fink]

Ben you hit the nail on the head. It's all about the "if we can't have it, neither can you" mentality.

As hunters we are funding the conservation of these birds with our license dollars now. If hunting is taken off the table, who will be paying for conservation funding? Everyone will point their fingers at hunters and hunting license monies, but I will contend that since hunting has zero effect on the population, why should we foot the bill when we have no hunting of the birds? At that point it's EVERYONE'S responsibility to fund sage grouse conservation, not just hunters.

 

[bigskyblueman]

Exactly, retaliation is part of Brendens' motive. I think Gov. Bullock would veto this bill and Brenden will eventually be term limited out to pasture. Many nice folks around Scobey, Brenden is not one of them.

 

[shoots-straight]

I hate playing defense and seeing what we went through this last session

That's exactly why a group of us formed a PAC after the 2011 legislative session. "Montana Sportsman's Alliance" was what we came up with. We threw a lot of time and money at Brendens bid for re-election promoting Julie French's campaign. We got soundly defeated there. Those people must be a lot different in the head than most.

We are always looking for members to get active.


http://www.montanasportsmenalliance.com/

 

[JWP58]

I hope this doesn't trickle south of the MT border, then WYG&F wont give a rats-arse about ANY upland bird. (as of now they care only for Sage Grouse...and their precious pen raised parakeets).

 

[RobG]

That's exactly why a group of us formed a PAC after the 2011 legislative session. "Montana Sportsman's Alliance" was what we came up with. We threw a lot of time and money at Brendens bid for re-election promoting Julie French's campaign. We got soundly defeated there. Those people must be a lot different in the head than most.

We are always looking for members to get active.


http://www.montanasportsmenalliance.com/

You'll probably never get a D elected there. Can you oust Brenden in the primary?

 

[Ben Lamb]

You'll probably never get a D elected there. Can you oust Brenden in the primary?

IIRC, this is Senator Brenden's second term as a senator, his last. He's got 2015 and then he'll be termed out.

 

[katqanna]

I hope this doesn't trickle south of the MT border, then WYG&F wont give a rats-arse about ANY upland bird. (as of now they care only for Sage Grouse...and their precious pen raised parakeets).

JWP, I have to thank you for your signature link. I read the title and it caught my attention, so thankfully I clicked on it. Then it made sense. You are also a Texan (born San Antonio, last decade in the boonies between Bastrop, Elgin and McDade, so I know Austin well from all my university research and soccer.) that doesnt like to put up with bullshit and is blunt. I have been laughing for awhile now, reading through your blog (Maybe the blog is bad voodoo????).

The Western Governors Association is working on the Sage-Grouse from their perspective. The last update they put out was the Inventory of State and Local Governments Conservation Initiatives For Sage-Grouse Dec. 2012. I called them to see if they had the 2013 available. Carly explained that they are finishing it and it will be available about mid-January.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I hope this doesn't trickle south of the MT border, then WYG&F wont give a rats-arse about ANY upland bird. (as of now they care only for Sage Grouse...and their precious pen raised parakeets).

JWP - Wyoming, in fact, showed Senator Brenden the way. The Wyoming Stockgrowers tried to shove a hunting closure down the throats of Wyoming sportsmen. They objected:

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regi...cle_705a97b7-c204-52af-ab33-85e16c6b9e8b.html

 

[mtmiller]

JWP - Wyoming, in fact, showed Senator Brenden the way. The Wyoming Stockgrowers tried to shove a hunting closure down the throats of Wyoming sportsmen. They objected:

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regi...cle_705a97b7-c204-52af-ab33-85e16c6b9e8b.html

Ben, from the article, it looks like Wyoming still has a season, but it is now 3 days. I think my research last year had WY broken into 3 units; 1 closed, 1 open for 16 days and 1 open for 3 days.

Montana manages the state as 1 unit with a 62 day season. Do you think the commission should look at this closer?

Just looking for others perspective.