Possession Limit Question

[smarandr]

This season was my first time waterfowling in about five or six years. So, figuring that I'd forgotten a lot about the rules and regs I obtained the regulation pamphlet and read through it. One thing that caught my attention was the Federal Possession Limit Rules.

My understanding of possession limits was that you could only have x number birds in your possession out in the field after the first day of the season. Then, once you got the birds home you could go out the next day and get another bag limit.

However, the way I read the rules regarding Federal Possession Limits http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/docs/rules/waterfowlInfo.pdf, birds in your freezer count towards your possession limit. To me that means that if you limit out on two different trips you are done for the year and can't go again. And suppose that I don't get around to turning my birds to jerky until next fall sometime; does that mean I can't go hunting again until I eat all my birds?

I send a message to Fish and Game about this, but haven't heard back. What do you guys think?

 

[Frenchy]

That's correct. Birds in your freezer count towards your possession limit. I questioned a Warden about that this year. Basically told him I would be turning all my weekend birds into Sausage, but he suggested that they would still be birds in my possession even if it was in the form of Sausage. I disagree, but my opinion carries no weight.

Short answer. You gotta eat, donate, or otherwise your birds before you go hunting again to stay within the letter of the law.

Another note. Each hunter must accompany their birds out of the field. Even if gifted birds from another hunter, those gifted birds count against your personal possession limit.

 

[smarandr]

Wow. Is this new, or was I an egregious violator back in the day?

 

[cowboy]

Wow. Is this new, or was I an egregious violator back in the day?

You were an egregious violator back in the day.

Here's a good example of how you can do everything right and still be a violator. Go to Canada on a hunt, limit out according to Canadian law and possession limits, transport them back to the U.S., put them in your freezer, and you are illegal on the possession limit by "The letter of the law". Possession limit by U.S. federal law doesn't care where the birds came from, if they have been processed, or what year they were put into your freezer - it is the total number of birds in your possession at ANY ONE time.

 

[Bambistew]

Is this really a surprise to anyone that actually reads the regs? You either need to eat them or give them away if you want to keep hunting. Posession means in your control, in your truck, cooler, blind, freezer.

 

[putm2sleep]

Is this your idea of a trick question? This is not MYOR (make your own ruels???) You have a bag limit and possession limit. Period.

 

[smarandr]

Is this really a surprise to anyone that actually reads the regs? You either need to eat them or give them away if you want to keep hunting. Posession means in your control, in your truck, cooler, blind, freezer.

It was a surprise to me because I do read the regs. However, the last time I went waterfowl hunting and read the regs booklet was in 2005. It's entirely possible that possession limit was spelled out back then like it is now, but I don't know why I wouldn't have picked up on it back then.

It just seems silly to me that once I get the birds home and processed I have to consume them before I can go again. Why does it matter if it takes me a week, a month, or six months to eat them? They still get eaten. But, like Frenchy said, my opinion carries no weight. I always do my best to stay legal, so from now on we only get to eat duck & goose jerky from October thru December.

FYI in Idaho 'Possession Limit" is defined as "the maximum limit in number or amount of wildlife which may be lawfully in the possession of any person. "Possession limit" shall apply to wildlife being in possession while in the field or being transported to final place of consumption or storage." Since federal law trumps state law it would seem that this doesn't apply for migratory game birds.

 

[Bambistew]

I recall reading the duck regs when I first started hunting them 20+ years ago, the possession limit was pretty clear to me. Maybe you had ID regs on the brain?

Interesting take on the ID regs. So does that mean that you could put 400 grouse in your freezer and its not a problem? That’s nuts...

AK has similar rules with fish, if its in a state of preservation which would last longer than 10 days its out of your possession... Therefore you can catch a limit of fish every day and never have to eat any of it as long as its frozen. However of the 10-12 states I've hunted and fished the AK rule is the only one I've run across that has such a definition for possession for any fish or game.

 

[Bambistew]

Just did a quick search of ID fish and game code... possession is possession... in your freezer, bird vest, cooler, etc. unless you give them to someone they are in your control. Like I said the only place I've ever seen possession stop at the freezer door is Alaska and only with fish.

http://law.justia.com/codes/idaho/2011/title36/chapter2/36-202/

(m) "Possession" means both actual and constructive possession, and any control of the object or objects referred to; provided that wildlife taken accidentally and in a manner not contrary to the provisions of this title shall not be deemed to be in possession while being immediately released live back to the wild.

"Possession limit" means the maximum limit in number or amount of wildlife which may be lawfully in the possession of any person. "Possession limit" shall apply to wildlife being in possession while in the field or being transported to final place of consumption or storage.

 

[smarandr]

I guess I don't see it that way; I don't think it means field, transportation, storage. I think it means field, transportation to storage. Page 52 of the upland bird regs (http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/docs/rules/uplandLicense.pdf) back up my interpretation: "The maximum number of each species of game bird or game animal, that may be
lawfully possessed while in the field or being transported."

If the limit applies to the freezer I'm sure there are tons of people who are in violation going deer or elk hunting every year because they still have a steak or two left from the prior season.

So to your prior point, I guess technically if you went grouse hunting every day of the season and limited out you could have 496 birds in the freezer. That is nuts.

 

[Bambistew]

The code trumps the reg book... The regulations are written in layman’s terms, sometimes incorrectly. Likely somewhere in the regulations booklet it states just that. You can go ahead and challenge it but you'll loose, I guarantee it.

You have a specific permit to possess an elk or deer, and have to keep it with the meat, or at least in your possession (in most states) until its consumed. Possession limits usually apply to fish and small/upland game.

Definitions. Whenever the following words appear in title 36, Idaho Code, and orders and rules promulgated by the Idaho fish and game commission or the director of the Idaho department of fish and game, they shall be deemed to have the same meaning and terms of reference as hereinafter set forth. The present tense includes the past and future tenses, and the future, the present.

In your freezer = in your control = in your possession.

 

[MHMT]

Geez hopefully a warden doesn't come to my house and do genetic testing on all of my remaining duck jerky... decide that it came from 15 different birds and cite me for being one bird over my possession limit. haha.

whether or not "possession" includes birds at your residence or not, I doubt any warden is going to care, unless you got really carried away with it.

 

[brymoore]

I think part of smarandr confusion may result from Idaho's definition of possession limit for small and upland game. Once your kill is in storage at your house, it is not considered part of the possession limit in Idaho.

 

[smarandr]

I'm just being silly now, but by the federal provisions I think if it's still in your g.i. tract your in possession of the bird still.

And another thinker; what about all the mounts I have? Do they count as part of my possession limit?

 

[Bambistew]

I think part of smarandr confusion may result from Idaho's definition of possession limit for small and upland game. Once your kill is in storage at your house, it is not considered part of the possession limit in Idaho.

Where can I find the code with definitions for small and upland game?

I sent an email to the F&G asking for clarification. I'm quite currious now... I dont' believe that your posession ends when you turn the truck off in the driveway.

 

[MHMT]

I'm just being silly now, but by the federal provisions I think if it's still in your g.i. tract your in possession of the bird still.

And another thinker; what about all the mounts I have? Do they count as part of my possession limit?

I'm pretty sure they do. I hope they find all the pheasant tails I've tied for flies. I might be way over my possession limit.

 

[Bambistew]

I'm just being silly now, but by the federal provisions I think if it's still in your g.i. tract your in possession of the bird still.

And another thinker; what about all the mounts I have? Do they count as part of my possession limit?

They're in your possession until you flush.

What part of a mount is edible?

 

[smarandr]

Where can I find the code with definitions for small and upland game?.

I don't believe there is any. Title 36 of Idaho Code is everything that relates to Fish & Game. Based on that code the commissioners set the rules and regs. I think the closest we are going to get with a code answer was what we were debating earlier as it relates to the definitions.

 

[smarandr]

They're in your possession until you flush.

Now that's funny right there.

 

[tarheel]

The way I read and understand it is that Federal regs trump those of of any state when it comes to migratory birds, and if you check closely you'll probably find that the state regs mirror those of the Feds in all states. I'd be very surprised if they didn't. I don't know how that works in the states which have such generous limits on spring goose. We don't have that luxury here, but we do have an early and generous Canada season on the resident population which is growing exponentially from year to year. The golf course owners love the idea.