Are you certain there was not an outfitter or resident guide involved with those hunts?
Please explain what is going on with public land.
- Thread starter Archery1995
- Start date
Are you certain there was not an outfitter or resident guide involved with those hunts?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
- rescinding Roadless Rule
- stripping protections from national monuments
- Boundary waters, Ambler Road
- reduced leasing rates for O&G
- eliminating Public Lands Rule
What should we be clutching our pearls over?You don’t have to sell it or give it away to destroy it.
Those that downplay what is happening are either blind or getting a benefit from it.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
My take is that we are weakening public lands. Less collaboration, less staff to do the basics like pump toilets, fix roads, and monitor chunks of earth for needs, more holes poked in the policies and safeguards to ensure responsible stewardship, etc. It would not be unreasonable to view most of the recent changes as moves on a chessboard positioning a certain set of interests for a kill shot. They tell us who they are all the time, and perhaps we should believe them.
That said, I wouldn't say we are losing public lands. We could quibble about certain changes I myself might agree with, but in the round, Public Lands are not getting better at all. A part of the reason it's easy-ish to dismiss folks' concerns I think, is that a lot of the good we see on public lands (and in this world) are the product of incremental decisions based on a future payoff or state of affairs. So much of the stuff we enjoy were not the product of monumentally obviously good decisions/changes at the time of their implementation, but over time, and stacked upon one another, we don't realize how good we have it, nor how having it good is not the natural order. It takes work, money, and good decisions over decades. Decades from now, we may look back and see the degradation of things, and it will be tempting to attribute them to one big "this or that", but it will be the product of a thousand cuts that left scars.
Or tomorrow, some high-falutin sonofabitch might just try to outright skin us of public lands. That's totally in the realm of possibility, and then my previous paragraph will seem quaint.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yes, quite certain.
When you hunt with friends are you a guide or are they the guide?
Maybe you have no friends, which is a strong possibility.
Neither: I am a 100% DIY hunter, not interested in guided hunts at this point in my life.
Did anyone involved in those hunts possess a resident guide license? If not, and that gentleman was a nonresident, that is highly illegal. It is very clear in the regulations.
The Hunt Talk crew lost its collective mind over a 3.15 acre parcel near Jackson:
13 pages for 3.15 Acres?
In my opinion, the 3 million+ acres of federal Wilderness acreage being closed off to NR DIY big game hunters is materially a much larger issue.
The ire isn’t necessarily unjustified, it’s just pointed at the wrong target at times in my opinion.
44hunter45
Well-known member
@Archery1995 THe OP could not have known the usual shitstorm would ensue from the usual players when they posted the thread.
If you want some actual education on the subject, start here.
IF you want more than that, I would next find a copy of this book:
If you want some actual education on the subject, start here.
IF you want more than that, I would next find a copy of this book:
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Hyperbole. I didn't lose my mind over it, but still worth the discussion that happened. If the Federal government wants to use Federal land to house Federal employees, that's fine. Using it to house commoner's to serve billionaires because the billionaires don't want the commoner's too near them is BS. The idea of using Federal lands for affordable housing is floating around and gaining speed. Let me know at what level you get upset at the idea.
The Wilderness rule is a WY rule, not a Federal rule. The rule doesn't say you can't go in wilderness, just that you can't hunt it without a guide. So it remains wilderness and is usable by all. There has been plenty of ire pointed at that rule. Would you be upset if they put in a few roads and started strip-mining some of the WY wilderness areas? Or maybe that would be ok because you can't hunt it without a guide? Not caring about something because you can't benefit from it backs the point made earlier that hunters can be incredibly selfish.
Again, you have changed the point of a thread to rail on something that bothers you.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Both of those hunts were unguided, DIY hunts in Wyoming Wilderness and 100% legal.
Fact.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
So your inability to hunt wilderness in Wyoming is equal to the threat that the Forest Services will give away 1/2 of its public land (and all improvements and equipment therein) in Louisiana that we paid for as taxpayers to support economic growth?
*Our. And it is actually a much larger threat to DIY big game hunters by acrage.
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Irrelevant
Well-known member
Threat to what exactly?
Threat to access?
Threat to habitat?
Threat to wildlife?
The state rule you are referring to, could be administratively changed with the stroke of a pen. Once LA sells that public land to private industry it's gone. It's also incredibly odd that you don't seem to care that "we" already paid for that land in LA, but because you don't hold any interest in hunting it, therefore it holds no value.
While I, too, hate the WY rule, many of your comments drive people away from that issue because they are so completely selfish.
That is a great question. I have no idea why the residents of Wyoming continue to restrict only that particular activity to NR DIY hunters.
They must identify something about big game hunting that holds a different value than the others you’ve mentioned, you’d have to ask a resident the thought process on that one.
Forkyfinder
Well-known member
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Because it restricts NR and benefits R and outfitters. Its an easy win for residents and outfitters to align/benefit and put the screws to NR.
Akin to a chicken, fox, and coyote figuring out whats for lunch.
Nailed it. That’s wack though.
the question was indirectly directed at you, since you only seem to care about the hunting angle. you know that answer anyway.
it's trivial overall when considering all uses and the fact that nobody is restricted from entering those public lands.
the question is why are you so hung up on something so trivial in the grand scheme of public lands access while accusing everyone else of being too hung about stuff you claim is trivial in regards to the threats against public land?
Because it involves so many more acres. It’s really simple math if you brake it down.
3+ million acres being off limits NR DIY hunters from 49 states is a lot of land that people are paying for without equal opportunity to enjoy.
The original poster asked about threats to public land, presumably through a hunting-focused lense (it’s on Hunt Talk… it’s right there in the name). The threat to actually enjoy these hunting activities on public lands that has been coming from state residents of certain states lately is orders-of-magnitude larger than any threat coming from the current administration.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yes it is wack, because you and your forkie bro both know that land management and game management are 2 entirely different things with entirely different mandates.
I've had this argument before, and if you want to push ending the wilderness guide law, I can probably make that happen.
But, as a (supposed) DIY hunter it's going to cost you, and cost you big. I can do it by courting the outfitters with, oh, I don't know lets say 50% of the NR tag allocation for deer, elk, and pronghorn being outfitter only tags.
How would that treat you as a NR DIY hunter? Juice worth the squeeze? Because that's what it would take.
It's even more absurd when there's a fast, quick, and easy way to end-run the guide requirement. But, like I said, that would take a tiny bit of effort by not being a butt-hurt whiner.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Not true, why do you insist on lying?
You can be in any Wilderness in the State of Wyoming, right now, or anytime, enjoying it all you want.
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