Oregon mule deer

[Brittany Chukarman]

To get the dog ban passed the anti's used a video of a badly done hillbilly bear hunt. I can't remember the details but the bear fell out of the tree and the dogs tore into it, something along those lines. Lots of hollering and bawling. There was some money behind it as it was shown on Portland tv for quite awhile. Seems like it barely passed but Portland was a different place then. This was before it became "the place where young people go to retire". It would never be repealed nowadays.

 

[gouch]

The ban will not be repealed and if it was, a few more cougars would be killed each year and it wouldn't make much difference for the mule deer. Cougars are a small part of the problem, The year after the ban went into effect more cougars were killed by hunters than any previous year. The big parts of the problem all involve humans in some way.

 

[MarvB]

I just don’t care for wildlife management by ballot measure. ODFW biologists remained officially silent; a mandate prohibiting government employees from expressing an opinion on matters of public policy. So the experts most qualified to forecast the consequences of Measure 18, even paid to have said knowledge, were forbidden to speak on the subject. That’s BS!

You’re right gouch that there was a small uptick in harvest the year after passage but they were literally giving away tags back then and also reported cougar “take” is a combination of ALL mortality (cars, natural deaths, trappings, etc) found or reported. For example through March of this year we are at 88 animals of a statewide quota of just under a thousand (like 970 I believe) but only 40 have been from hunters.

As you know, Season is year around in OR and you can pick up two tags, resident or not, for $16.50 each! Does little to no impact with the population.

Last data was about 15,500 tags sold; nearly 196,000 hunting days reported; avg of 13 days pp hunted; total take of 345 lions.

When Measure 18 was passed the eat lion pop was around 2,200…it’s now pushing 7,000 with a mgt objective (the “plan” ) of 3,000. So about 200,000 deer a year being affected by the how well the plan is working out.

Read one study showing (of collared deer kills) an estimate of 83% of the lion kills were done between 10pm and 5am. Pretty hard for the average hunter to be out and about looking for cats at that time of day.

Given humans, lions, automobiles, the drought, etc., it’s death by a thousand cuts for Oregon deer herds.

 

[gouch]

This is the problem. The title of this thread is "Oregon Mule Deer" The entire content of the thread is about cougars, not mule deer. The worse way to manage wildlife is to base policy the ignorant opinions of the voters. A very close second is to manage wildlife based on the ignorant opinions of hunters. Cougars are not the main problem with mule deer populations. Cougars do kill deer. So do hunters. A deer killed by a hunter has exactly the same effect on the deer population as a deer killed by a cougar. Everyone wants to blame the cougar because that way they can convince themself that there is a simple solution to a complex problem. Just reduce the cougar population and the Mule Deer population will recover. Not likely. The biggest problem for mule deer is human activity and that is not an easy fix.

 

[MTTW]

This is the problem. Some people believe that you can manage game including mule deer without managing predators. Especially lions. In areas where these people win in the management scheme of things, mule deer will decrease in population until there aren't enough left for man to hunt. At this point those people will blame the problem on something that is impossible to change and ignore at all costs the things that are possible to change.

One point that is often ignored is the relationship between the population of predator and prey. If you have x number of deer and x number of lions and the population of deer decreases for whatever reason, and you now have half as many deer, you need to do something about some lions or you will sit where you are at long term.

Meanwhile the population of mule deer in towns and subdivisions increase or hold their own while deer in the mountains decrease steadily.

 

[MarvB]

Your right gouch from the perspective of turning this into a lion thread (sorry to the OP for the side rail) and I also agree that humans lead the way in both impact and in lack of solution here in OR, part of which lies squarely on the shoulders of ODFW.

Mgt by ballot is never going to work, but neither is the way the Dept issues tags. Granted many unit seasons are extremely short but in actuality they should man up and not have a season at all in MANY of our areas. Will people scream? Yeah but maybe they’ll finally get the point! Look how long it took to get wildlife undercrossings for our highways? Why are doe tags even available at all? Why is grazing still being allowed on public that sees little if any rainfall year after year? Wild horse problems in certain areas? We got that too!

One of the main reasons I bring up cat hunting is it is one of the few things in our state that “could” (but won’t) be addressed fairly quickly AND the fact that it is over double the current mgt plan objective of 3,000ish lions. No, that will NOT be the saving grace of our deer herds BUT it would be a step in the right direction and help to solve two issues.

 

[Trap]

This is the problem. Some people believe that you can manage game including mule deer without managing predators. Especially lions. In areas where these people win in the management scheme of things, mule deer will decrease in population until there aren't enough left for man to hunt. At this point those people will blame the problem on something that is impossible to change and ignore at all costs the things that are possible to change.

One point that is often ignored is the relationship between the population of predator and prey. If you have x number of deer and x number of lions and the population of deer decreases for whatever reason, and you now have half as many deer, you need to do something about some lions or you will sit where you are at long term.

Meanwhile the population of mule deer in towns and subdivisions increase or hold their own while deer in the mountains decrease steadily.

Well said. Well meaning hunters sometimes buy into the ignore predators and deflect blame to habitat, urban sprawl and too many hunting tags. It’s dangerous to ignore the fact that predators eat deer and elk and they are good at it. Overpopulated predators are the game plan to end the North American model of wildlife management. It’s working in some states and ignoring the facts of predator and prey relationships is dangerous to the future of hunting in all states. I’m not saying ignore habitat and hunting pressure either it’s all important. It just scares me for the future when hunters ignore the fact that predators eat ungulates and lots of them

 

[Trap]

Your right gouch from the perspective of turning this into a lion thread (sorry to the OP for the side rail) and I also agree that humans lead the way in both impact and in lack of solution here in OR, part of which lies squarely on the shoulders of ODFW.

Mgt by ballot is never going to work, but neither is the way the Dept issues tags. Granted many unit seasons are extremely short but in actuality they should man up and not have a season at all in MANY of our areas. Will people scream? Yeah but maybe they’ll finally get the point! Look how long it took to get wildlife undercrossings for our highways? Why are doe tags even available at all? Why is grazing still being allowed on public that sees little if any rainfall year after year? Wild horse problems in certain areas? We got that too!

One of the main reasons I bring up cat hunting is it is one of the few things in our state that “could” (but won’t) be addressed fairly quickly AND the fact that it is over double the current mgt plan objective of 3,000ish lions. No, that will NOT be the saving grace of our deer herds BUT it would be a step in the right direction and help to solve two issues.

Lions are not off topic. The article specifically mentioned lion removal and a resulting rebound in mule deer populations in Oregon

 

[FI460]

Just gonna put this here:

Odfw is giving hunters what they have asked for.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

bringing back dogs would be a good start,but it will never happen,,too many city people in portland that have no idea and love kittys..odfw is a joke here anyways,,there is no comparison to other "managed" states..oregon is just a place to take your gun for a walk.been bad for many years and is getting worst every year at this point.heck we cant even open up hwy 224 above estacada for going on 2 years now after the fires to even get to the woods yet.

 

[FI460]

we cant even open up hwy 224 above estacada for going on 2 years now after the fires to even get to the woods yet.

Isn't that a federal management issue?

 

[Joe Hulburt]

This is the problem. The title of this thread is "Oregon Mule Deer" The entire content of the thread is about cougars, not mule deer. The worse way to manage wildlife is to base policy the ignorant opinions of the voters. A very close second is to manage wildlife based on the ignorant opinions of hunters. Cougars are not the main problem with mule deer populations. Cougars do kill deer. So do hunters. A deer killed by a hunter has exactly the same effect on the deer population as a deer killed by a cougar. Everyone wants to blame the cougar because that way they can convince themself that there is a simple solution to a complex problem. Just reduce the cougar population and the Mule Deer population will recover. Not likely. The biggest problem for mule deer is human activity and that is not an easy fix.

In places where cougar removal had occurred buck numbers and age class immediately improved. It’s one of the only factors that can be realistically improved. It would be great to have all the mule deer winter range back and to have less humans on the landscape but those things can’t be changed. Cougars can be reduced enough to have a meaningful impact. It’s impossible to discuss Oregon mule deer without talking about the huge elephant in room.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

hwy 224 closure is a political issue w d o t and so called safety,but its acts as a closure to a very large chunk of forest access closed off politically,,,ive never heard of hwys being closed off for almost 2 years in any other states just cause a fire rolled thru???//all about control//cant wait till kate brown ,our worthless governer gets out of there,,,lol

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

as far as mule deer goes,i agree with joe h and that its a combination of many things,,,drought,poaching,mtn lion and coyote and wolf control of predatation,,human encroachment,,ranchers,cattle and overgrazing,,how many hunt tags are issued,,car hit animals,,all things hurting mule deer here,,,been a long time since ive seen a nice 5x5 mature buck in oregon.

 

[MarvB]

Would love to see a decent mix of age classes make their way back to central Oregon; might just be a pipe dream to ever witness the likes of the Nosler Buck running around again!

 

[David658]

We have a tendency to instantly blame mountain lions (cougars are typically harmless, unless you marry one), and ignore bears. Bears are very impactful on on fawns, both elk and deer. The key is that in Oregon we managed to lose the battle about hunting with dogs. Both bears and mountain lions are part of the issue, and add to that devastating wildfires in the central part of the state, and the fact that ODFW has perpetually been behind the curve in managing the population, mule deer lose.

The chart above showing that the greatest majority of hunters just want to hunt, and that harvest is not the top priority, is appropriate. Would you rather hunt and be skunked, or just not get to hunt. I'll take getting skunked over staying home any day of the week, including Sunday. The point is not that ODFW is managing just to give hunters a week in the woods, it's that they have done a crappy job of managing, and the prohibition of hunting predators with dogs has just made their job harder.

I loved deer hunting in Oregon, we hunted in the Metolius Unit which almost became home for a couple of muzzle loader hunters, and we usually drew, and usually brought meat home. But our favorite area burnt to the mineral soil, danged near sterilized the ground. Not going to be many deer there for a long, long time.

 

[Trap]

Would love to see a decent mix of age classes make their way back to central Oregon; might just be a pipe dream to ever witness the likes of the Nosler Buck running around again!

View attachment 220123View attachment 220124

Wow! Why is that called the Nosler buck?

 

[FI460]

We have a tendency to instantly blame mountain lions (cougars are typically harmless, unless you marry one), and ignore bears. Bears are very impactful on on fawns, both elk and deer. The key is that in Oregon we managed to lose the battle about hunting with dogs. Both bears and mountain lions are part of the issue, and add to that devastating wildfires in the central part of the state, and the fact that ODFW has perpetually been behind the curve in managing the population, mule deer lose.

The chart above showing that the greatest majority of hunters just want to hunt, and that harvest is not the top priority, is appropriate. Would you rather hunt and be skunked, or just not get to hunt. I'll take getting skunked over staying home any day of the week, including Sunday. The point is not that ODFW is managing just to give hunters a week in the woods, it's that they have done a crappy job of managing, and the prohibition of hunting predators with dogs has just made their job harder.

I loved deer hunting in Oregon, we hunted in the Metolius Unit which almost became home for a couple of muzzle loader hunters, and we usually drew, and usually brought meat home. But our favorite area burnt to the mineral soil, danged near sterilized the ground. Not going to be many deer there for a long, long time.

This one kind of confounds that:


People want to both hunt every year and have a better quality hunt.

I would rather hunt deer every few years if that means the quality is increased. I'll hunt bears on the interim years and scout for when I can draw my tag.

 

[MarvB]

Wow! Why is that called the Nosler buck?

He hung out for years not too far off the parking lot of Nosler in Bend, OR.
Was also nicknamed “Buck Norris” lol.
Pretty much a local celeb and every year folks couldn’t wait to see what he’d add on. Unfortunately met death by car .

Couple more pics of him:



A local taxidermist here did a small run of reprods on his final rack, got to hold a pair in the shop. Was amazing looking at that width and mass! Hope the genes got spread around but haven’t seen anything remotely the same since.

 

[Trap]

He hung out for years not too far off the parking lot of Nosler in Bend, OR.
Was also nicknamed “Buck Norris” lol.
Pretty much a local celeb and every year folks couldn’t wait to see what he’d add on. Unfortunately met death by car .

Couple more pics of him:

View attachment 220169View attachment 220170View attachment 220171

A local taxidermist here did a small run of reprods on his final rack, got to hold a pair in the shop. Was amazing looking at that width and mass! Hope the genes got spread around but haven’t seen anything remotely the same since.

View attachment 220172

what an absolute beautiful buck! Thanks for the info, my old college roommate works for Nosler I will have to ask him about it.