Nonresident hunters rights

[1_pointer]

A wildlife biologist on a big, wildlife friendly ranch I used to work with claim mule deer are dumb. He stated that once they completed vegetation/habitat projects that pronghorn would find them within a week and elk within a month. Said it might take mule deer a year to find it! ;D

 

[Jwill]

Which begs the question of how many states have in their constitution the right of it's citizens to hunt?

Virginia has a constitutional right to hunt and fish, but we're not allowed to hunt on Sundays...try wrapping your head around that one...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Mule deer used to use the cottonwood/willow jungles that whitetail use now? Or do you just mean ag fields?

Seems odd to me that mule deer and whitetail can coexist so well in the mountains of western MT where resources are limited, but not in the river bottoms where food's plentiful.

I grew up on the N. Platte around Casper and seeing muleys down on the river, in the willows and cottonwoods was the rule, not the exception. They didn't bed down in there like Whitetail, but they used the habitat.

I'm not sure they're coexisting in the Mtns. Mule deer numbers are down statewide.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Both of the main federal land management agencies as well as NRCS have manuals that describe how to collect data for vegetation and soil health. However, it is quite labor/time intensive and there is often little to no budget allocated for the collection of the data.

IMO/E unless an area is very, very highly eroded and/or has a very bad infestation of non-native species that are drastically different than what occured there naturally (ie perennials vs annuals) soil health is most often not an issue. These areas are fewer and farther between than most folks would think. The soils change and degrade much, much slower than the vegetation. Not saying that many areas on public land the soil health can't be improved or that productivity has not been decreased. Take a look at the State and Transition Model of an Ecological Site for an area you are interested in. These are used to describe the different types of vegetation that occur at various "states" of soil health as well as the restoration activities to improve them and the causes to transition them to a lower state. If the plant species growing in an area are those of the reference community, even if their relative proportions are off, I highly doubt the soils have changed to the point of drastically changing the nutritive quality of the forage.

We'll never know unless we look, will we?

Forage condition & soil quality are the most important aspect of wildlife management, imo. Without good groceries, we won't grow as many deer, elk, etc. That means large carnivores will have a more pronounced impact on game species, fecundity is lower and hunter opportunity will decrease.

 

[wyoming556]

Anybody catch the BGF episode of Macmillan adventures with Shawn Michaels? Seems they even have the outdoor channel tricked. Even won a golden goose award.

http://www.mrahunting.com/keiths-blog/macmillan-river-adventuresbig-game-forever-wolf-episode/

 

[Randy11]

I grew up on the N. Platte around Casper and seeing muleys down on the river, in the willows and cottonwoods was the rule, not the exception. They didn't bed down in there like Whitetail, but they used the habitat.

I'm not sure they're coexisting in the Mtns. Mule deer numbers are down statewide.

That's cool to know about river bottom mule deer. Every river bottom I've ever been in is thick with whitetail, so I haven't gotten to see that.

I hunt mountain areas in region 2 and 1 that have just as many mule deer in them now as they did when I started hunting 15 years ago. These areas are a mix of both species and they seem to do pretty well around each other. It must be an anomaly or my experiences are lying to me.

 

[Bambistew]

When I was a kid, I would say that the Madison river from about 10miles above Ennis to the lake was inhabited about 50/50 mule deer/ whitetail. Today its about 1/99. Above that was mostly mule deer. All the creek bottoms that drain into the river were MD only. Today its very different, basically all whitetail, with very few mule deer.

I really think it has more to do with them coexisting prior. I read a study a while back that concluded that the mule deer will eventually be come extinct due to displacement by whitetails. Not sure if I buy it, but who knows.

 

[theat]

My experience in the mountains of western Montana differs from Randys. I have found mule deer numbers to be steadily decreasing in most of the areas that I hunt.

 

[Zim]

There is a group looking out for the non-resident and making sure you get the most opportunity possible. They're called SFW/BGF.

This post was obviously meant to be a sarcastic joke.

 

[MTpubliclander]

To me it doesn't seem like it's going to get much better very soon. All the young bucks are now getting cropped. While it would never happen, my dream for Montana would be a statewide 3 point mule deer antler restriction, 4 point whitetail antler restriction, youth only doe tags, and landowner doe tags to keep landowners happy.

I have discussed this idea with several friends associated with the wildlife management field, the bad thing with point restrictions is the you get large mature mainframe deer that manage to stay below the restrictions even when mature, even though this takes a while to begin to show up it can happen, if you look at some of Montana's special draw districts they often hold good mature deer since the number being taken are limited but the size is not meaning more deer have the oppritunity to mature. There definatly needs to be changes in management if we want to kill more mature deer.
Im just not sure if point restrictions are the best answer.

 

[shoots-straight]

You really want to help mule deer, kill all the whitetail you can find.

Your starting to sound like the anti Toby Bridges!