Non-political Make ICE hate make sense to me. Can it be civil?

[BigHornRam]

Late to the game. I have a one and done. My mother married my father near the end of WWll. He was American she was British. She came to Ellis Island on a converted troop ship. She was processed with all the others and dumped off in New York where she was able to finally make contact with my dad's family who sent money for a train ride to CA. They were not allowed to bring anything more than pocket money. The immigrants were tracked closely, had to attend citizenship classes until graduation and ceremony to become a US citizen.
Based on that story alone told by a 100# 5' tall 20 year old woman, I see no reason whatsoever why the illegals cannot do the same thing today. No sympathy here. If they want to become citizens then they need to make the same efforts my mother did 80 + years ago.

We didn't handle everything perfectly back then, just like we don't handle everything perfectly today. People make mistakes.

Heart Mountain Relocation Center (U.S. National Park Service) https://share.google/giRgk39dl8Y0pt52y

 

[Mscarl (she/they)]

ICE isn’t just targeting illegal immigrants. They’re targeting people with a certain skin color.

It is not just skin color. The queer community has been warning about the fascism we are experiencing since the regime took office the first time. This was never about immigration or kids using bathrooms.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

That’s a good point. I just see that as a moment of weakness on Obama’s part versus a pattern of consistent narcissism with Trump. I also agree with you, Bush has more class than anyone.

And everyone called him a hick during his presidency. Lots of crow has been eaten because of those comments I'm sure.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I live in a very red area and I don't think you could find many that are anti legal immigration. I'm also in the heart of the meat packing industry so we have watched illegal immigration completely disrupt our school systems. We just got another flyer from our public school administration lobbying to build a new school again - 34% of students English is their second language and 12% don't speak English. We built a new school less than 10 years ago and its already overcrowded. This isn't a border town, its a small town in Nebraska. The open border policy every administration has embraced the last 40+ years exploited poor people from poor countries.

I was leaning in on your comments until the last sentence. If you don't mind, please explain why you feel someone from a 3rd world country having a chance to live and work in the U.S. is exploitation. I assume you mean they aren't being paid what a US citizen would be paid? But even then, they aren't leaving those jobs and going back voluntarily, which tells me they have decided this is the best situation for them and their families.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I’m actually not anti-ICE or against enforcement of the law. I am against the way that Trump has leveraged where he’s deployed ICE and border patrol for political gain.

I’m against the systemic failure of our politicians to improve our border security and provide better solutions for legal immigration.

At the end of the day, I feel far more outrage over how the politically connected on both sides of the aisle enrich themselves in power and money at their constituents expense than I do when I find out the Hispanic guy that is hanging Sheetrock 10 hours a day didn’t give the government 30% of his gross pay.

This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue.

Bingo.

In addition to that, I'm against the hiring policies that have clearly led to unqualified (or worse) individuals being accepted into that job and handed a badge and gun (among other things). I'm also against the obvious disregard for constitutional protections of non-ICE individuals, including even local law enforcement and elected officials.

That said, if I were a dem strategist looking for a recipe for a landslide mid-term victory, this would all be the greatest gift I could imagine.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I'm against the hiring policies that have clearly led to unqualified (or worse) individuals being accepted into that job

I bet we agree on that.

Nvm. We probably don't.

 

[The_Jim]

I was leaning in on your comments until the last sentence. If you don't mind, please explain why you feel someone from a 3rd world country having a chance to live and work in the U.S. is exploitation. I assume you mean they aren't being paid what a US citizen would be paid? But even then, they aren't leaving those jobs and going back voluntarily, which tells me they have decided this is the best situation for them and their families.

It was in my first post. Republicans want cheap labor & Democrats want house seats.(non-citizens are counted in the census) Definitely was not implying they don't live great lives here, although I'm confident wages have been suppressed in industries filled with immigrant labor.

 

[NoWiser]

I have no idea whether thats true or not since I have nothing to back that up either way. But what skin color is it?

Pretty much any that’s not white, which is why Native Americans are/were being detained. Because they “look” like immigrants. Lots of stories up here. My wife works for a large hospital in Minneapolis in the midst of it. The things that are happening here just are not right, which is why we’re seeing the protests like they are.

 

[Irrelevant]

And everyone called him a hick during his presidency. Lots of crow has been eaten because of those comments I'm sure.

I've eaten a lifetime's worth myself. I was completely blinded by my politics to view him for who he was. A really decent human, who cared a lot for his country and the people in it.

I assume everyone has seen his interview on immigration right?

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I've eaten a lifetime's worth myself. I was completely blinded by my politics to view him for who he was. A really decent human, who cared a lot for his country and the people in it.

I assume everyone has seen his interview on immigration right?

He's an example of what Mark Twain meant when he said "if you want 10 pages, give me a day, but if you want one page, give me a week." The way he boiled down complex issues into simple analogies made him look stupid to the academic elite who are captivated by pretty language even if there is no substance behind it.

 

[Frenchy]

I've eaten a lifetime's worth myself. I was completely blinded by my politics to view him for who he was. A really decent human, who cared a lot for his country and the people in it.

I assume everyone has seen his interview on immigration right?

And that bolded part is what should be the mandatory minimum for anyone running for president. Unfortunately, we as a country have strayed very far away from that criterion.

 

[Nick87]

Pretty much any that’s not white, which is why Native Americans are/were being detained. Because they “look” like immigrants. Lots of stories up here. My wife works for a large hospital in Minneapolis in the midst of it. The things that are happening here just are not right, which is why we’re seeing the protests like they are.

Thanks I thought you were saying there was a certain skin color in particular.

 

[howl]

Immigration, illegal and otherwise, has been a huge cash cow. They don't want that to end.

 

[Bonasababy]

Thanks I thought you were saying there was a certain skin color in particular.

Skin color...and accents...are getting people detained or stopped.

 

[beaglegun]

Virtue signaling on steroids!!! They have no idea that they are being used. The people that are controlling this opp don't care what happens to anybody. They want chaos and revolution and pain and destruction and they got their pawns.

 

[EKYHunter]

Immigration, illegal and otherwise, has been a huge cash cow. They don't want that to end.

And huge elections implications.

 

[brymoore]

We didn't handle everything perfectly back then, just like we don't handle everything perfectly today. People make mistakes.

Yeah. We let more than a few German/Ukraine Nazis through Ellis Island or however after the war. I don’t recall any causing problems.

 

[Lota lota]

As courts have ruled numerous times, they are doing illegal actions. They are violating the rights of US citizens and non citizens as they try to implement these polices and actions.

I know it is complicated and hard to keep up, but all the other points are far more complicated than you want to make them. For example, Many of these people are under Temporary Protected Status (so not illegal) and then have the Administration revoke that status so they can array and deport them.

For example, In legal filings the administration has argued that the 4th amendment doesn’t apply to noncitizen immigrants, even though hundreds of years of legal decisions have said it applies to everyone. You have to remember why the Constitution was written and how it was framed. If you don’t remember, go read it. What is being attempted is redefining how the constitution is interpreted. That could have profound impacts on all us going forward.

The "Temporary Protected Status" still doesn't mean that they came into the country legally. It's used as "asylums" and protection from countries that are either at war, or have a failed government. I.E. Venezuela, Cuba, Mexico etc.

 

[Lota lota]

Have not read all the replies, but one factor I don't see in the OP is the value immigration has to our economic interests in the US.

It's huge, and absolutely necessary--every demographer and economist would agree.

Why?

The US Birth rate will fall below death rate in just a few years. We went through most of our lives with the huge flush of baby boomers contributing to our economy. Most of them will be retired or dead in just a few years. To maintain our economy, we need more babies born. Child bearing age people is MUCH lower than average over past years and we also know they do not have the same outlook on numbers of children they want to have as average in the past. Many want none--not something common in the past.

People are needed to fill jobs, and not just grow but maintain our economy. We are running out of people.

Basic government costs--policing, transportation and everything they do for us--need people paying taxes to fund.

Suddenly many less people and those expenses still have to be paid. Guess how that occurs? HIGHER TAXES FOR US ALL.

So we need--badly need--immigrants.

Trump and MAGA fans--as seen in other threads--have a completely different take--that immigrants are the problem, not the solution.

Anti-immigration is anti american economy and pro higher taxes.

Do you understand the toll they take on the housing market, healthcare etc.?

 

[jryoung]

I've eaten a lifetime's worth myself. I was completely blinded by my politics to view him for who he was. A really decent human, who cared a lot for his country and the people in it.

I assume everyone has seen his interview on immigration right?

What would we look like today had 9/11 not happened when it did and the passage of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 not thwarted Bush's vision on immigration?