Non-political Make ICE hate make sense to me. Can it be civil?

[RealMuddyboots]

I just skimmed it so perhaps you can tell me where it says I as a citizen can be detained for not showing my paperwork?

You cannot and it is not a perfect world. No knock warrants fall into same category. Our constitutional rights are always being assaulted one way or another. The post was to confirm if not a citizen you must provide ID. I agree if a citizen we should not have to show anything unless our actions are deemed otherwise. And how or what determines that.?

My mom was from Holland. Her family came thru Ellis. So yeah, I have different opinions how legal immigration works. Ask any immigrant that came through legally of their opinion.

 

[SaskHunter]

I jumped in a rabbit hole trying to make sense of why the ICE hate.

Do you live under a large rock?

Anyone keeping tabs on current events could easily see why and/or how ICE is attracting negative attention, whether you agree with it or not, you can still see how 2 + 2 = 4.

 

[Bonasababy]

I can't speak to direct evidence that protesters are paid. I can speak to checking Indeed just now and seeing jobs available which include

1. Cameraman for protest
2. Community organizer for Acorn which 1 item under description says organizing protests
3. Bodyguard for protest

Also a search of Crowds on Demand website says if you need to hire protesters we can get a crowd on the street. Request a quote click box

that took 15 seconds and seamed fairly credible. So 100% there is paid protestors. Is everyone we are seeing paid. No way. But can a few paid get it going or can more bulk numbers 100%.

50,000+ people showed up to protest in Minneapolis in bitter well beliw zero F cold the day before Pretti was killed.

People that insist protesters are all or even mostly paid are too far gone to ever have an intelligent conversation with.

 

[Nuts]

Nope. Skeptical. And I don't keep tabs on current events. There is no way to accurately do that. I don't really drink so I need to avoid anything that would drive one to drinking.

 

[Elkmagnet]

You cannot and it is not a perfect world. No knock warrants fall into same category. Our constitutional rights are always being assaulted one way or another. The post was to confirm if not a citizen you must provide ID. I agree if a citizen we should not have to show anything unless our actions are deemed otherwise. And how or what determines that.?

My mom was from Holland. Her family came thru Ellis. So yeah, I have different opinions how legal immigration works. Ask any immigrant that came through legally of their opinion.

No argument here.
Fyi
I didn't intend to single you out by quoting you specifically

 

[Elkmagnet]

Nope. Skeptical. And I don't keep tabs on current events. There is no way to accurately do that. I don't really drink so I need to avoid anything that would drive one to drinking.

Read that back to yourself.
Can I just say that if you intentionally don't keep track of current events you shouldn't trust your own opinion on them.

 

[Elkmagnet]

When someone refuses to show papers and you have probable cause arrest them and get them a court date. If no probable cause your hands are tied let them go. If you suspend habeas corpus, refusing to allow a court date and telling the officer he has complete immunity that makes the officer judge, jury and executioner.
Sometimes the officer is wrong. It happens
The president has said he would like to deport some American citizens without a court date.
An amendment was recently removed for the spending bill that would have made it illegal to deport American citizens. It was removed after pressures from the Whitehouse. This is not going in a good direction.

 

[EKYHunter]

Late to the game. I have a one and done. My mother married my father near the end of WWll. He was American she was British. She came to Ellis Island on a converted troop ship. She was processed with all the others and dumped off in New York where she was able to finally make contact with my dad's family who sent money for a train ride to CA. They were not allowed to bring anything more than pocket money. The immigrants were tracked closely, had to attend citizenship classes until graduation and ceremony to become a US citizen.
Based on that story alone told by a 100# 5' tall 20 year old woman, I see no reason whatsoever why the illegals cannot do the same thing today. No sympathy here. If they want to become citizens then they need to make the same efforts my mother did 80 + years ago.

Used to work with a lady who could say the same as you. Agree with your last paragraph as well.

 

[Nuts]

Read that back to yourself.
Can I just say that if you intentionally don't keep track of current events you shouldn't trust your own opinion on them.

yep. That is why I started the post. Its hard to find anyone not quoting misinformation or interpreting things to their own agenda or opinion. Its quite frustrating. So my opinions in this matter are likely off one way or the other in some regards. I have experienced a few things in regards to illegal immigration but I also have some good friends who are themselves here illegally. I didn't know it and never asked. I hate seeing them stress. I have known them for a long time. So I am pulled in 2 directions at the same time. Confused? Yep me 2. That's why I asked the questions.

 

[Exhausted]

Bush and Obama would be like a breath of fresh air in 2026

Barack Obama is still around, and active, as is Michelle Obama. Feel free to speculate on whether either of them are currently bringing the country closer together or further apart.

I'm the grandson of immigrants who came here legally, twice. They came from England, and then moved back to assist ailing family. After being back in England a while they realized they made a mistake and reapplied to come back. They'd been gone over a year and, as my granddad said, "it was like we'd never been to America and had to start totally from scratch." The law worked, even if it was difficult and complicated.

I'm also the husband of a first generation American citizen, born in Texas, whose entire family (brother, sister, and parents) initially came here illegally. With the exception of the dad, who was deported for various crimes (for which he was tried, found guilty, etc.) they rest are all now citizens and productive members of society. The citizenship path took a long time, and they were green card holders for a long time before finally gaining citizenship.

Once, under a prior administration, my brother in law (then in a 20 year career with UPS, via which he was regularly sent to Central and South America for work), was detained returning from a work trip because he failed to disclose that he'd been arrested at 18 (super minor, it'd been 20 years, and he simply spaced when completing the form). He then sat in holding for weeks, had to utilize an attorney (multiple actually, as one was total scumbag and liar), and listened to the Hispanic guards tell him regularly that he was scum and was going to get deported before he was finally released. The law worked, even if it was painful.

Immigration isn't simple and it isn't free. It isn't supposed to be either of those things. If we had simply been enforcing our current laws over the last decades we wouldn't be in this ugly situation.

 

[Irrelevant]

yep. That is why I started the post. Its hard to find anyone not quoting misinformation or interpreting things to their own agenda or opinion. Its quite frustrating. So my opinions in this matter are likely off one way or the other in some regards. I have experienced a few things in regards to illegal immigration but I also have some good friends who are themselves here illegally. I didn't know it and never asked. I hate seeing them stress. I have known them for a long time. So I am pulled in 2 directions at the same time. Confused? Yep me 2. That's why I asked the questions.

I call BS.
You've got 2 cut plugs, the tide's about the turn, and the kings are in thick.

 

[Nuts]

I call BS.
You've got 2 cut plugs, the tide's about the turn, and the kings are in thick.

Not a clue what that means. lol. What do you call BS on

 

[Bonasababy]

Late to the game. I have a one and done. My mother married my father near the end of WWll. He was American she was British. She came to Ellis Island on a converted troop ship. She was processed with all the others and dumped off in New York where she was able to finally make contact with my dad's family who sent money for a train ride to CA. They were not allowed to bring anything more than pocket money. The immigrants were tracked closely, had to attend citizenship classes until graduation and ceremony to become a US citizen.
Based on that story alone told by a 100# 5' tall 20 year old woman, I see no reason whatsoever why the illegals cannot do the same thing today. No sympathy here. If they want to become citizens then they need to make the same efforts my mother did 80 + years ago.

No reason? Did you know Germany put out a travel advisory for their citizens traveling to the U.S.?

Think about that for a bit.

The country wanted immigrants back then.

It is trying to get rid of them today...including people that are on the path towards citizenship just like your mother was back then.

Under Trump we are completely different.

Good stories on that are cropping up all over, FWIW:

https://www.startribune.com/tolkkinen-after-childhood-under-dictatorship-97-year-old-detroit-lakes-woman-has-a-warning-for-america/601568778?utm_source=gift

 

[Straight Arrow]

If we had simply been enforcing our current laws over the last decades we wouldn't be in this ugly situation.

Great point and I think there is even a broader point to be made. Instead of spending all the huge amounts of money on the wall, border closure, ICE enforcement and so on ... if only there had been an efficient, easy to access entry protocol and expeditious process to evaluate asylum cases and other cases of immigrants wanting to enter the US, thus rejecting them or admitting them in a reasonable timeframe, we would not be in this mess. Also the issue of those born in this country to those not citizens, as well as citizens here for decades who have worked and become otherwise respectable, contributing citizens. The absence of an expeditious process is a root cause IMO.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Has anyone ever seen evidence of a paid protestor?

I haven't.

yes, you need to open your eyes man...

 

[Elkmagnet]

.

Once, under a prior administration, my brother in law (then in a 20 year career with UPS, via which he was regularly sent to Central and South America for work), was detained returning from a work trip because he failed to disclose that he'd been arrested at 18 (super minor, it'd been 20 years, and he simply spaced when completing the form). He then sat in holding for weeks, had to utilize an attorney (multiple actually, as one was total scumbag and liar), and listened to the Hispanic guards tell him regularly that he was scum and was going to get deported before he was finally released. The law worked, even if it was painful.

What would have happened to him without a court date. The current administration is deporting people without court dates and despite Judge orders.

 

[Elkmagnet]

yep. That is why I started the post. Its hard to find anyone not quoting misinformation or interpreting things to their own agenda or opinion. Its quite frustrating. So my opinions in this matter are likely off one way or the other in some regards. I have experienced a few things in regards to illegal immigration but I also have some good friends who are themselves here illegally. I didn't know it and never asked. I hate seeing them stress. I have known them for a long time. So I am pulled in 2 directions at the same time. Confused? Yep me 2. That's why I asked the questions.

Keep in mind I am ok with deporting illegal immigrants and a border wall.
What Ice is doing is unnecessarily hurting people to make a point and for political reasons. Otherwise the majority of operations would be in southern states and agricultural communities.

 

[Nick87]

Barack Obama is still around, and active, as is Michelle Obama. Feel free to speculate on whether either of them are currently bringing the country closer together or further apart.

I'm the grandson of immigrants who came here legally, twice. They came from England, and then moved back to assist ailing family. After being back in England a while they realized they made a mistake and reapplied to come back. They'd been gone over a year and, as my granddad said, "it was like we'd never been to America and had to start totally from scratch." The law worked, even if it was difficult and complicated.

I'm also the husband of a first generation American citizen, born in Texas, whose entire family (brother, sister, and parents) initially came here illegally. With the exception of the dad, who was deported for various crimes (for which he was tried, found guilty, etc.) they rest are all now citizens and productive members of society. The citizenship path took a long time, and they were green card holders for a long time before finally gaining citizenship.

Once, under a prior administration, my brother in law (then in a 20 year career with UPS, via which he was regularly sent to Central and South America for work), was detained returning from a work trip because he failed to disclose that he'd been arrested at 18 (super minor, it'd been 20 years, and he simply spaced when completing the form). He then sat in holding for weeks, had to utilize an attorney (multiple actually, as one was total scumbag and liar), and listened to the Hispanic guards tell him regularly that he was scum and was going to get deported before he was finally released. The law worked, even if it was painful.

Immigration isn't simple and it isn't free. It isn't supposed to be either of those things. If we had simply been enforcing our current laws over the last decades we wouldn't be in this ugly situation.

I wasn't sure if it was you, since it doesn't show previous usernames anymore. Good to see you back around.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

No argument here.
Fyi
I didn't intend to single you out by quoting you specifically

Never took it that way just good questions. I'm too old to be insulted on anything. That is part of the problems our society has, disagreement turns into war.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Great point and I think there is even a broader point to be made. Instead of spending all the huge amounts of money on the wall, border closure, ICE enforcement and so on ... if only there had been an efficient, easy to access entry protocol and expeditious process to evaluate asylum cases and other cases of immigrants wanting to enter the US, thus rejecting them or admitting them in a reasonable timeframe, we would not be in this mess. Also the issue of those born in this country to those not citizens, as well as citizens here for decades who have worked and become otherwise respectable, contributing citizens. The absence of an expeditious process is a root cause IMO.

Great point. The previous asylum policy was a major contributor to the immigration issues we are dealing with now. You basically just cross the border and say “I fear political persecution”. Word travels pretty fast, couple that with free room and board, medical care, etc provided in major sanctuary cities and you have the recipe for mass migration that overwhelms the system. Fareed Zakaria laid it out pretty well in a bit I saw on YouTube.