sbhooper
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It is a choice and copper is very good, especially with high velocity. I still say that it is much to do about nothing. It helps market the monos, though.
Non Lead Rifle Ammo Experience Question- fragments in meat?
- Thread starter Walkathon
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antelopedundee
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Nosler 120 grain 6.5mm E-tip. Can someone comment on the preferred twist rate for these?
Here’s the only thing I found this year from a 185gr TTSX bullet from my .338-06 after shooting a mule deer doe. Bright blue tip was easy to find when butchering. I do believe that piece of meat saw the bullet pass through it but I cannot remember what part of the deer that bit of meat cans from. Wasn’t bloodshot.
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AvidIndoorsman
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I believe the minimum is 1:8.5, 1:8 being preferred. That said I shoot them in a 1:9 and I am happy with the results I get.
antelopedundee
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Thanks. Lengthwise they are about the same as the 130 grain Sierra GameChangers which I assume will trump the 10 grain weight difference.
AvidIndoorsman
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I switched from 140 grain swift A-frames, to 120 etips... I'm getting similar groups. I probably need to re-barrel to get better groupings, but at this point my gun out-shoots my ability so I'm not too worried about it.
antelopedundee
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Midway has the 120 gr 6.5mm Nosler E tips for $29.19 per box. Pretty decent price and free shipping if you buy 2 boxes.
I ordered one box plus a box of Hornady 120 gr GMX bullets just to try when spring rolls around.
I ordered one box plus a box of Hornady 120 gr GMX bullets just to try when spring rolls around.
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buffybr
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I've been using Barnes TSX and TTSX exclusively as my hunting bullets in my .300 Weatherby and .375 RUM since 2005. I've shot at least 30 animals with them, and most were complete pass throughs, but I did recover 8 bullets. Two of those bullets had each lost one petal, the other 6 were perfect mushrooms.
Here at home, I process all of my wild meat myself. I shot most of those animals on international hunts where I eat some of the meat, but as I didn't process those animals, I don't know if any petals were found in the meat.
Two of the animals that I processed here at home were bull elk, and one of them was hit with the .30 caliber TTSX bullet that had lost a petal. That bullet had broken the bull's upper leg bone at his shoulder and I found it in his opposite ham. I did not find the petal.
In my 50+ years of hunting and processing my own big game animals (deer, antelope, elk, bears, moose, bighorn sheep, caribou, a musk ox, and a mountain goat) totaling well over 100 animals, and most shot with lead or cup and lead core bullets, I have never found any lead fragments outside of the wound channels (which I cut out and throw away).
Here at home, I process all of my wild meat myself. I shot most of those animals on international hunts where I eat some of the meat, but as I didn't process those animals, I don't know if any petals were found in the meat.
Two of the animals that I processed here at home were bull elk, and one of them was hit with the .30 caliber TTSX bullet that had lost a petal. That bullet had broken the bull's upper leg bone at his shoulder and I found it in his opposite ham. I did not find the petal.
In my 50+ years of hunting and processing my own big game animals (deer, antelope, elk, bears, moose, bighorn sheep, caribou, a musk ox, and a mountain goat) totaling well over 100 animals, and most shot with lead or cup and lead core bullets, I have never found any lead fragments outside of the wound channels (which I cut out and throw away).
AvidIndoorsman
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Fragmentation is not necessarily apparent to the human eye... and is much greater than we previously thought.
Wisconsin Warning
Study
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ImBillT
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I don’t use them, but I would think that petals breaking off would be a positive. Just my opinion.
ImBillT
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Im not trying to discourage the use of lead-free ammo with the following comment.
I wonder how different those X-rays would appear if the animals have been fully gutted. I get the feeling most of those white dots would disappear. Next, I wonder how different they would be after a concerned hunter(not a game processor, an unconcerned hunter, or a person attempting to simulate the average hunter) then trimmed away all of the meat he thought may have been tainted with lead. While those X-rays show the degree of fragmentation perfectly, I’m not convinced that those X-rays show anything related to what a concerned hunter would eat.
I still support the use of lead-free ammunition by anyone who wants the peace of mind for their own health, the potential health of anything that might eat the gut pile, or any performance attributes that ammunition may posses. I was going to begin a search for lead free ammunition when I discovered a bullet that made me happy enough that I didn’t want to abandon it for something else. I used steel shot on some of my dove this year, and I use nickel plated lead when I’m not shooting steel. While that doesn’t completely eliminate the risk of lead exposure, it probably reduces it. Nickel plating definitely offers a performance advantage when I choose not to use steel and am not legally required.
AvidIndoorsman
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Agreed... I posted them to share info, nothing more.
1eyedshooter
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I have used GMX bullets for years, I never have found a petal, never have found a bullet !!!
buffybr
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I don't disagree that lead core bullets will fragment, and that there will be some very small fragments of lead in the animal. For 20 some years I shot my elk each year with Nosler Partition bullets and most years I would find the back half of the bullet just under the skin on the off side of the bull. Sometimes I would find a piece of the lead from the front half of the bullet, but it was too small to be all of the front lead.
Bluffgruff
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Love the discussion on all this. I have found copper petals in 2 animals out of 10 shot with copper bullets. Both had bone penetration prior to petals breaking off.
A point to consider on lead ammo is that adults may get lead poisoning from eating fragmented lead, but the real concern is feeding lead to kids where lead levels are much more of a concern with brain development. There is no safe level of lead exposure, and the more you have, the lower your IQ and a whole host of other things (lifetime earnings, etc).
Bottom line, use non-lead if you feed the meat you shoot to kids.
A point to consider on lead ammo is that adults may get lead poisoning from eating fragmented lead, but the real concern is feeding lead to kids where lead levels are much more of a concern with brain development. There is no safe level of lead exposure, and the more you have, the lower your IQ and a whole host of other things (lifetime earnings, etc).
Bottom line, use non-lead if you feed the meat you shoot to kids.
Six by five
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I've been using the copper Barnes TTSX 180 grain in a 300 Win Mag for the last 10 years. It's worked well on whitetail, mule deer, antelope, bear, and elk. Most shots were pass thrus with 1 bullet found on an elk. I would highly recommend the TTSX, plus the ballistic coefficient is great too.
It's pretty common to shed one or more petals when impact velocities are high. The Barnes LRX petals shear off easier than the TTSX did.
The reason these studies havent found any correlation is because the methodology they use is severely flawed.
When you ingest lead it's only in the blood stream for a few days. After that it stored in your bones, brain and other tissues.
So I made the switch this year, took two animals on two shots. Barnes vortex (TTSX) in .308, 168gr. Both died within 30 yards, one shot.
The antelope I shot @ 230yds, the bullet went through both front legs, shattering the humerus on both sides, and took out the aorta in between. I found one fragment while butchering the front quarters, but the edges weren't sharp. I hired someone with a grinder to grind up the shoulder meat, and they didn't find any bullet fragments, nor any copper marks on the grinder parts.
The more interesting thing, is that I lost less than a pound of meat to bloodshot, both shoulders combined, despite what I would call devastating results. Still good for the grinder.
Mule deer was 150 yards, high lung shot, dropped like a rock and never got up- just slid a bit. Never found a fragment.
They work, so I'll stick with them. But I still practice with lead at the range- just find something the same weight, with similar ballistics, and go save some money. Put a round of copper on paper before you go hunt, call it good.
The antelope I shot @ 230yds, the bullet went through both front legs, shattering the humerus on both sides, and took out the aorta in between. I found one fragment while butchering the front quarters, but the edges weren't sharp. I hired someone with a grinder to grind up the shoulder meat, and they didn't find any bullet fragments, nor any copper marks on the grinder parts.
The more interesting thing, is that I lost less than a pound of meat to bloodshot, both shoulders combined, despite what I would call devastating results. Still good for the grinder.
Mule deer was 150 yards, high lung shot, dropped like a rock and never got up- just slid a bit. Never found a fragment.
They work, so I'll stick with them. But I still practice with lead at the range- just find something the same weight, with similar ballistics, and go save some money. Put a round of copper on paper before you go hunt, call it good.
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