No Tags

[jabber]

Last year I applied for 29 out of state tags and 15 in state tags for me, ( either hunts or points) and for my son it was 18 NR & 15 R.

No you don't have to front the money for all the applications, each state varies. Yes it does cost some, the out of pocket for me for just points & applying last year was less than $1K and about half that for my son.

Also, you are not out all of the money at the same time, it starts in January and last through July or so, possibly later.

I just wish I would have the problem of drawing too many tags. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[1_pointer]

No, in many states you do not have to front the tag costs. Just put the application on a credit card and they charge you if you get drawn. Utah for example, you buy the $65 license and then each application is $10. You'll eat that amount. They'll then charge you the full tag price if you draw. For some states if you put in for multiple species you could easily have to write a $5k+ check or put it on a credit card and eat the interests until you get the refund. These states are harder for me to put in for as I don't often have that amount to 'loan out' for a few months.

The $10K that was recommended would have most of it refunded and then available for the next year's applications. You won't be out of pocket that much every year. I put out applications for quite a few states and I figure I eat between a $1-1.5K per year in application fees, point fees, and licenses I won't use. I'd get you an accurate figure, but adding that add would probably be too depressing.

It ain't for the faint of heart that is certain...

 

[LopeHunter]

The costs to aggressively be in the non-resident application game are extensive. I think about hunting every day.

My out of pocket costs to apply is just below $2200 for 70 applications, fees and bonus points. Used to be around $1100 to apply but inflation for nonresident hunters is something fierce these days. Add $500 for state raffles.

So, some years spend about $3000 and get no primo tags. If I do not draw a tag then I usually line up a hunt with an OTC or leftover tag. I got ill one summer and had some surgeries so did not hunt at all for a year.

What if draw 70 tags? Statistically, will not happen. I have drawn 2 primo tags (primo means under 5% odds, harvest rate for past 3 years over 60%, public land hunt option, low tag numbers, mature animals in the unit) at most in a year and have been shut out 1 in 4 years.

What if are drawn?

When I get drawn for a primo tag, my cost is usually around $3000 door to door if can drive and $4000 if have to fly. The tags can be as low as $300 and a few are over $2000. So, my hunting passion on average costs me about $10,000 a year in fees, tags and gear. I now have most of the gear I need for most hunts so that helps a bit.

Sounds like a rich person's game, right?

Well, to apply in 10 - 15 states then get drawn for a tag or two adds up to a number that is about 25% of the median household income in America. I would say is not a game most of us can play long term. The irony is when some of us do get a bump in cash flow as empty nesters or from inheritance that we are then well past our physical peak.

I have buddies that are working their rears off, have no vices, driving an older car that is paid off, etc, and could never scratch together money to get into the nonresident application game. Some are supporting elderly parents. Some have illnesses or special need family members. They can not play the nonresident game long tern but they can usually hunt somewhere local each year and maybe one in a blue moon go on an out of state elk or deer hunt.

On the other hand, for I have several buddies that paint themselves into a corner. Choices they made and still make. Predictable outcomes that impact cash on hand. Most of these hunters make 2 to 3 times the household median. They sould be set to get into the game, right?

Usually not the case. Several kids. Ex-spouse or two. Spouse does not work outside the home. Smoke 2 packs a day (yep, $4400 right there). Get a new vehicle every year or two. Have cable TV with several premium services. Rarely buy anything used.

Choices. Some are honorable choices. But, choices. With predictable impacts on cash flow.

I make significant efforts to never nickel and dime away my ability to hunt. I may someday soon find myself being the care giver for an ill or elderly family member. I may find my savings gone due to cost of health care. I may become bed ridden. For now, I am in the game.

 

[BlakeA]

Some people go on multiple all inclusive vacations each year for 6-8 days that cost $3-4000 each for eating excess crappy food and drinking a lot of alcohol while getting burnt on a beach....I went on 3 different out of state DIY hunts last year (Mule Deer, Elk, Antelope) that cost me $1500.00 for tags.

Even a trip out of town for a weekend say 4 hours away...$100 for gas, 2 days of eating out and drinking $100, 2 nights hotel=$ 200, and if you go to a game or out shopping it's another $100. Point is, you can easily blow $500 on an average weekend just going somewhere. That is enough to build points for deer and elk in AZ, NV, and UT for example.

Even if it takes me 10 years to draw a non blue chip archery AZ Elk tag at $180 each year for points, that is still only $1800 plus the tag so roughly $2600. It will cost you triple that amount to go guided on private property by 2025.

It is not a rich mans game in my opinion. When you are at the lake camping this summer take a look at all of the new trucks, boats, and campers. The majority of those people are paying more in interest on those toys than you would on multiple out of state tags each year.

 

[dustinf]

Goat tag this year. Nothing else yet. .

Sounds like a terrible year so far...

 

[npaden]

I have a spreadsheet that I keep track of all my costs and which units I apply for and all that fun stuff.

I will apply for 31 tags this year (Arizona Sheep, Bison and Deer are still in progress) and my non-refundable costs for those tags will end up being $979.14. Half of that is the required nonresident licenses in Arizona, Nevada and Idaho.

At the peak of drawing season at the end of April I will have almost $20,000 in refundable applications fees outstanding. I pay my credit card off so I don't have to pay interest, but if you didn't I don't think the interest would be more than $300 - $400 for the one month you ran a balance.

There is no doubt that I'm so far behind in the point game for sheep that I will probably never have enough points to draw a tag in the preference point pool in any state, but most still have a few tags that go in the random draw pool in some form or fashion so I look at it like I'm playing the lottery.

I've been very lucky this year and have drawn 4 tags so far.

If you can't afford to play in all the western states, you might want to pick a few that work for your situation. If you can't afford the up front payment of the tag, you might want to apply in Utah, Nevada and Arizona. If you want to limit your non-refundable fees, maybe try Wyoming, New Mexico and Colorado. There are a lot of options available.

 

[jryoung]

Struck out in AZ, UT, NM and NV.

MT MSB pending

Just put in my application for CA elk, sheep and antelope, with elk B in MT soon to follow.

If all those miss, I'll be picking up a MT Big Game Leftover.

 

[BuzzH]

Seems to me that more and more states are not making hunters "front" the money for tags. MT stopped it this year, I hear rumbling that WY will not require it next year either.

As to the costs, IMO/E, if you only have the money to apply for just points rather than the tags right now, do it. My financial situation has changed alot since I started applying nearly 20 years ago.

On the states that you have to buy a license, maximize the expenditure and apply for points for all species you even "think" you might want to hunt someday. Hunting certain species changes for everyone over time. I never thought I'd want to hunt coues deer that much, but now I've shot 2 of them, and cant wait to go again.

My only regret to applying, is that I wish I would have started applying out of state 5 years before I did.

If you're looking at things like sheep, the cheapest way to get those is no question through a state draw. Most all sheep hunts are 12-50K these days. The only difference between the cost of my desert sheep and an elk in AZ was the difference in the NR tag fees.

I just dont want to be 60 years old and regret not applying for hunts, all because I couldnt scare up the application fees, etc.

Its a long-term process, that helps fund wildlife and conservation...worth every penny to me.

 

[alwayshunting]

There is a lot of good advice in this thread for someone looking into applying for multiple out of state tags. I make an average income, but hunting is my number one priority for my money and I make sacrifices in other aspects of my life. I seem to be in a similar situation as npaden. I will apply for 26 out of state tags this year (30 if MT did not change there prices), had $20k out as of last month, and am set to lose just under $700 in application fees this year. I have a hunting savings that I keep the money to apply each year and only have to replace the application and drawn tag fees. I am way behind on the points game also and as Buzz said my only regret is not applying sooner, but at only 25 I hope to have time to continue to apply long term and draw some excellent tags in the future.

 

[naturebob]

Buzz, there are some decent Coues tags You can draw every year in southern AZ. Just have to deal with Illegals. I did it 4 years ago on a leftover tag before I moved up here. Usually not a problem there and We just carry side arms in case..ON a left over You don't loose Your bonus points either...........BOB!

 

[Zim]

I actually apply for 33 NR & 14 R tags each year. Most of these are long shots and I average 1 or 2 western tags per year. This year I'll be lucky to get 1. Got nearing 20 points/species in most of these states. I used to apply for as many as 40/yr, but gradually now I am dropping out of those with reduced ROI as they morph into profiting more from unsuccessful applicants. Examples would be WY sheep & moose, NH moose. Dying to get out of Utah & Oregon completely as I burn points. I want the best value for the limited cash I invest. My personal out of pocket limit at any one time is about $8,000.

Anyway I figure I have about a 65% chance of hitting something out of my last 8 draws. C'mon OR & WY!

 

[MN Public Hunter]

WOW, Sorry I hijacked the thread, but I would like to thank everyone for weighing in and showing it does take many years and many dollars to hunt out of state. Good luck on your draws to those that have not happened yet