New Toy
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
Oak- I use XMap Professional so I can upload shape files and MrSIDs. One thing to keep in mind is that they sell it to owners of PNs at half price (at least they were last year when I bought it). I also just bought Topo 9 but mostly use XMap.
If all a person wants is a plug-and-play ownership map on their gps, without being overly obsessive about the accuracy of boundaries, Garmins are the way to go because there are a lot of choices of said maps. The ability to upload actual USGS quads, replete with section lines and survey markers, as well as aerial photos and actual BLM maps is invaluable to me. I do believe some of the newest Garmins are capable of displaying aerials and I've seen that the new ones will also allow you to load BLM maps using AllTopo in conjunction with BigTopo. But as far as I know you still can't upload quads. It all boils down to what a person needs/wants a gps to do. When Big Shooter comes charging out of the trees and accuses me of trespass and shooting his cows, I want every resource at my disposal to know I'm in the right.
If all a person wants is a plug-and-play ownership map on their gps, without being overly obsessive about the accuracy of boundaries, Garmins are the way to go because there are a lot of choices of said maps. The ability to upload actual USGS quads, replete with section lines and survey markers, as well as aerial photos and actual BLM maps is invaluable to me. I do believe some of the newest Garmins are capable of displaying aerials and I've seen that the new ones will also allow you to load BLM maps using AllTopo in conjunction with BigTopo. But as far as I know you still can't upload quads. It all boils down to what a person needs/wants a gps to do. When Big Shooter comes charging out of the trees and accuses me of trespass and shooting his cows, I want every resource at my disposal to know I'm in the right.
I guess I don't follow what you mean by resolution/detail/precision. Could you elaborate a little more? All the software uses the same data so resolution/detail/precision would be the same between the different levels of software I would think. Now what you can do with that data relative to each suite is a different story. What did you have in mind of doing that the Professional software would not have done?
Actually I was driving across the prairie and saw a USGS survey marker. I drove to within a few feet and zoomed in as tight as possible on the screen and then measured the distance on the screen. I bumped into another one today and it was 18' difference.
I think the best part of this chip is the landowners name on the private parcels.
WT - When I met with them, brought a topo map of an area I hunt in Montana and showed them exactly how I use my system of maps and GPS. I told them all the features I needed and the level of precision I was expecting.
At first they told me that all of that was available in a PN-40. They tried to show me how it worked and they realized it would not do the surface level ownership boundaries to the level of precision I had asked.
My ask was this. Can you overlay the surface ownership maps on top of the topos to a level of precision that was +/-10 feet.
They called over the guy who sells the products for Energy and Transportation systems, who was one of the smartest people I have ever talked to about this kind of stuff, myself not being a great expert.
He understood exactly what I wanted. He then showed me the much higher level system he had loaded on his laptop. He told me that was the only product they had which was capable of doing what I was asking, which I did not think was a big ask.
When I asked how much it cost, there was discussion about whether or not they even sold that product to retail customers. The price was more than the GPS unit.
This may have been a complete misunderstanding of what I was asking and what they thought I was asking. I left there with a confused feeling of how on earth they could expect to service the hunting market, when they really didn't even understand why I was so worried about surface boundary accuracy. And why my buddies who use GIS in their daily lives thought DeLorme was a great product.
The one guy with the laptop definitely got it and could probably put me within an inch of a corner pin, if need be. But, he was not the retail/outdoor guy, and he seemed convinced that the handheld products/maps provided in the PN-40 would not give me much in the way of precision +/- 10 feet for surface boundaries.
Maybe no other retail level unit or map sets can give me that either and I am relying on bad data without knowing so. Also, the level of detail and map layers they showed me to be available was very limited.
As much of a hack as I am, I left there with the feeling I was better off with the old Garmin 60 that we had been using and loading maps to, than what had just been shown me. The other options being to incur the cost of what the Energy/transportation guy had stated would be incurred to get what I had asked for.
I am not a surveryor and did not ask for anything very technical. My friends who do a lot of survey or other technical GIS work are very enamored with the DeLorme products, so I found this outcome very strange. I am not nearly as demanding as people in your industry, so I thought my request would be easily fulfilled.
Impulse buy yesterday after reading this post.... Garmin Oregon 450 (not the T)
I did some research and what I found was do not pay extra for the T models because of all the good free maps out there.
I am worried a little though about the touch screen. I am hard on my gear and i do not know how it will hold up. Also they can dial your last phone call by mistake when you are at the titty bar, and that may have been your squeeze at home!
I did some research and what I found was do not pay extra for the T models because of all the good free maps out there.
I am worried a little though about the touch screen. I am hard on my gear and i do not know how it will hold up. Also they can dial your last phone call by mistake when you are at the titty bar, and that may have been your squeeze at home!
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Dinkshooter
Well-known member
Since it appears Khunter is out actually working and doing consulting.
Oregon screen covers. It is a shame they don't come with them .
http://www.amazon.com/Lexerd-Garmin-TrueVue-Crystal-Protector/dp/B002JK561W
I wouldn't even take it out of the box without one.
Oregon screen covers. It is a shame they don't come with them .
http://www.amazon.com/Lexerd-Garmin-TrueVue-Crystal-Protector/dp/B002JK561W
I wouldn't even take it out of the box without one.
May be the problem Pointer. I might be walking around thinking I have been pretty accurate, but maybe I am off by a long shot. Is there an alibi for dumb and ignorant?
True. I've taken wpts while working and then hung my GPS on a tree to "average" the point while I'm note-taking, only to pick it back up and have my GPS tell me I'm 50' from the point I just took at that location.
Yep! When using a Trimble it's not often to have a few of the points being a few meters off when being differentially corrected.
Handhelds can be as accurate as you'll ever need, but they're not always. I've had my cheapo Garmin get me with in 2 feet of true location (which was a cadastral station). But, that is definitely not the norm.
174in
Well-known member
I bought a garmin 450t last month due to drawing my third choice unit in wyoming with broke up public land.I had my hunting partner buy me the wyoming chip from the same company as Fin.Mine came last week once I put the chip in and zoomed in on wyoming I was very impressed.I would recommend this to any hunter out there.This will make things a whole lot easyier
174in
Well-known member
Also mine shows my hunt unit in a green line.One other thing is that you can send your chip in every year and get it updated with ownership changes for $20.00
I'll apologize for a lengthy post in advance, but don't have anything else going on tonight so what the heck!
Big Fin- I don't know what the person you talked to at DeLorme meant by not being accurate to +/- 10 ft. but I have an idea. The unit is plenty capable of sub-10 ft. accuracy (as evidenced later) so I'm guessing they meant the public land maps they had available to the public at that time weren't capable of that resolution. They did have a public lands layer but it was only viewable in Topo on your computer and you couldn't upload it to the gps. Just as well as it was only resolute to about a 1/4 section level. DeLorme has included state lands and BLM boundaries in the latest version of Topo (Topo 9) and it is also displayable on the gps. It is from shape files so I would imagine it's as accurate as any other maps based on stewardship shape files. I just got it and the little I've proofed it against BLM maps it is pretty good. But it does not include USFS so that's a downfall. In all fairness, Garmin isn't setting the world on fire with their maps. Do they have any maps themselves that show land ownership? All the maps I know of are being produced by aftermarket entrepreneurs who are filling a niche and since Garmins dominate the market that's who they're marketing to.
Here are screen shots I received from DeLorme prior to buying Topo 9.
BLM next to res boundary
DNRC
Here's why I think the PN units are plenty accurate.
Screen shot of sitting in the northeast corner of my house at the computer typing this
Waypoint taken standing next to a fence that you can see in the aerial and USGS quad. This is saved from XMap's split screen that enables you to display two different kinds of map data.
The next set of photos shows where I had a gps mounted to a windshield via RAM mount and stopped on the east (right) edge of the road so the gps was in-line with the fence that you can see coming in from the left. I stored a waypoint at this position. In-line with the fence and about 15 ft. to the right (east) of the waypoint is a survey marker that says the section corner is 30 ft. to the west, which puts it in the middle of the road.
Aerial photo showing fence coming from west and position of waypoint. USGS quad shows waypoint in corner of section, right where it should be. This is saved from XMap with split screen again.
Below are screen shots of the above waypoint showing different images on the PN-40.
USGS quad
Aerial photo
BLM 100K
Next is a screen shot from a Garmin 60CSx with huntinggpsmaps.com map background showing the same waypoint as above. I actually stored this waypoint using the 60 that day.
I'm not sure how long a post can be so I'll end this one and start another.
Big Fin- I don't know what the person you talked to at DeLorme meant by not being accurate to +/- 10 ft. but I have an idea. The unit is plenty capable of sub-10 ft. accuracy (as evidenced later) so I'm guessing they meant the public land maps they had available to the public at that time weren't capable of that resolution. They did have a public lands layer but it was only viewable in Topo on your computer and you couldn't upload it to the gps. Just as well as it was only resolute to about a 1/4 section level. DeLorme has included state lands and BLM boundaries in the latest version of Topo (Topo 9) and it is also displayable on the gps. It is from shape files so I would imagine it's as accurate as any other maps based on stewardship shape files. I just got it and the little I've proofed it against BLM maps it is pretty good. But it does not include USFS so that's a downfall. In all fairness, Garmin isn't setting the world on fire with their maps. Do they have any maps themselves that show land ownership? All the maps I know of are being produced by aftermarket entrepreneurs who are filling a niche and since Garmins dominate the market that's who they're marketing to.
Here are screen shots I received from DeLorme prior to buying Topo 9.
BLM next to res boundary
DNRC
Here's why I think the PN units are plenty accurate.
Screen shot of sitting in the northeast corner of my house at the computer typing this
Waypoint taken standing next to a fence that you can see in the aerial and USGS quad. This is saved from XMap's split screen that enables you to display two different kinds of map data.
The next set of photos shows where I had a gps mounted to a windshield via RAM mount and stopped on the east (right) edge of the road so the gps was in-line with the fence that you can see coming in from the left. I stored a waypoint at this position. In-line with the fence and about 15 ft. to the right (east) of the waypoint is a survey marker that says the section corner is 30 ft. to the west, which puts it in the middle of the road.
Aerial photo showing fence coming from west and position of waypoint. USGS quad shows waypoint in corner of section, right where it should be. This is saved from XMap with split screen again.
Below are screen shots of the above waypoint showing different images on the PN-40.
USGS quad
Aerial photo
BLM 100K
Next is a screen shot from a Garmin 60CSx with huntinggpsmaps.com map background showing the same waypoint as above. I actually stored this waypoint using the 60 that day.
I'm not sure how long a post can be so I'll end this one and start another.
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This photo shows an aerial photo and USGS quad of a section. They are in XMap and zoomed to the same level so lines line up. You can see a fence line in the aerial that I'm sure was surveyed before being built by the well-to-do neighboring landowner. In the aerial you can see the north, east, and west fences. The north fence in the photo lines up well with the quad and on the south you can see a fence coming in from the east side that lines up with the section line on the quad.
This is another photo of the same section with three different shape files. The black line is a draw file I did around the section line of the quad. This line is virtually on top of the fence line in the aerial. The blue line is a most current cadastral shape file that I would imagine is the same as what would be shown by huntinggpsmaps.com. The green line is an old cadastral shape file and shows why I wasn't too enthused about using maps based on this old data for hunting small public land tracts and why I went the DeLorme route. As you can see, the data is getting better (more accurate).
Here are some more screen shots of why I like the PNs.
I still like the looks of BLM 100K maps.
I also like USGS quads with section lines and found corners.
I like being able to have a zoomed out view like this to see terrain.
But be able to zoom in as well.
When hunting whitetails in the timber, they tend to be clustered around openings so it's nice to be able to do this and go from opening to opening. It's almost like cheating.
Another handy thing is being able to draw a boundary and overlay it on an aerial photo so you can tell how everything lays in relation to the boundary.
All this being said, the XMap/PN system I use is not plug-and-play. It takes a fair amount of time to download/upload these images. A big benefit to me is when I'm hunting small irregular parcels of public land and need to have as much accuracy in the base maps as possible. The huntinggpsmaps.com map is much more user friendly as it doesn't take very long to insert the SD card and it's ready to go. And the boundary accuracy is getting better and is plenty close enough most of the time. A long-winded way of saying use what you like and are comfortable with.
This is another photo of the same section with three different shape files. The black line is a draw file I did around the section line of the quad. This line is virtually on top of the fence line in the aerial. The blue line is a most current cadastral shape file that I would imagine is the same as what would be shown by huntinggpsmaps.com. The green line is an old cadastral shape file and shows why I wasn't too enthused about using maps based on this old data for hunting small public land tracts and why I went the DeLorme route. As you can see, the data is getting better (more accurate).
Here are some more screen shots of why I like the PNs.
I still like the looks of BLM 100K maps.
I also like USGS quads with section lines and found corners.
I like being able to have a zoomed out view like this to see terrain.
But be able to zoom in as well.
When hunting whitetails in the timber, they tend to be clustered around openings so it's nice to be able to do this and go from opening to opening. It's almost like cheating.
Another handy thing is being able to draw a boundary and overlay it on an aerial photo so you can tell how everything lays in relation to the boundary.
All this being said, the XMap/PN system I use is not plug-and-play. It takes a fair amount of time to download/upload these images. A big benefit to me is when I'm hunting small irregular parcels of public land and need to have as much accuracy in the base maps as possible. The huntinggpsmaps.com map is much more user friendly as it doesn't take very long to insert the SD card and it's ready to go. And the boundary accuracy is getting better and is plenty close enough most of the time. A long-winded way of saying use what you like and are comfortable with.
WT - That is very informative. I wish I was that handy with the tools you mention.
Unfortunately, I am not that talented, and I suspect I am in the same boat as most other hunters who will rely on retail products that provide the best intersection of ease of use and accuracy. Probably a lazy way of saying that I will end up using the commercially available maps sets.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that.
Unfortunately, I am not that talented, and I suspect I am in the same boat as most other hunters who will rely on retail products that provide the best intersection of ease of use and accuracy. Probably a lazy way of saying that I will end up using the commercially available maps sets.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that.
Drake4
Well-known member
BigFin- What are your thoughts on the hunting map software after using it for a couple of weeks now?
It is the best tool I have used so far this year. In NM, it was the key to knowing where we were and what bucks we could go after. I am ordering the AZ map set for the next hunt. It is that impressive.
It might not be precise to 5' +/-, but is good enough for what I have been using. I know Greenhorn used it in WY. I think he found it helpful.
I know they are slammed, but Eric assured me if people say they heard about it on OYOA, he would make sure their orders got processed ASAP.
I also have MT and will be using that on many hunts this fall, along with WY.
Good luck.
It might not be precise to 5' +/-, but is good enough for what I have been using. I know Greenhorn used it in WY. I think he found it helpful.
I know they are slammed, but Eric assured me if people say they heard about it on OYOA, he would make sure their orders got processed ASAP.
I also have MT and will be using that on many hunts this fall, along with WY.
Good luck.
Brentster7189
New member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2010
- Messages
- 398
Curious Fin if you ended up getting the 62st, and how it is working for you. How are the maps holding out...do you notice them making any improvements on the maps themselves that your buying, including hunting unit boundaries?
WBouldin
Well-known member
This may not be of help but I've found that most states have a "unit overlay" for google earth... Just go to your states dnr or DFG website and search for it. Gives you and arial of the boundaries and makes it easy to recognize landmarks in the field.. Between a gps, map, and an arial print out you shouldn't have any second thoughts on whether the bull is indeed in your unit or not
