New threat to 2nd A?

[Hem]

Thats the best part...start pointing a finger and whoever you point at will quickly redirect. A circle has no end.

 

[elkduds]

I hear you, I get it. Let this administration hang itself. But November is a long time from now, and changes/actions taken by this administration come blitzkrieg-style. I don’t think we can just “wait it out.”

Aside from that, this is an opportunity for real leaders to emerge, who could offer a sane, moderate. reasonable path. Maybe that’s Pollyanna type thinking, but I’m not willing to give up hope that we can choose better than just between two extremes.

Change is far more likely to result from crisis than from consistency. Time to use the political power of 47's crisis administration against itself. He was elected by amplifying crises that didn't rise to that level, and self advocating as savior. It should hurt to vote stupidly, and that is the current source of our national discord.

Make no mistake, the politics of division and tribalism has been the GOP playbook, even before Project 2025, McConnell's illegal failure to vote on the nomination of Garland to SCOTUS, even before Citizens United changed our elections to auctions. That pendulum needs active encouragement if it is ever to swing back. The rate of change in our society and species is greater than ever, accelerating every day. If we don't get ahead of it, it will rapidly leave us behind. That is what emerging leadership should represent.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

My two pennies:

Personally, I think the decision to concealed carry a handgun, while going to monitor ICE interactions was a bad one. If anyone I knew was going to do that, I would passionately plea with them to reconsider.

That said, he was carrying that gun legally and he did not brandish it, or threaten law enforcement with it. In my opinion, it is literally impossible to both support the current interpretation of the 2A and current laws on carrying firearms (in Minnesota), and defend this shooting. You have to choose.

And regardless of where you come down on that, we should all be able to agree that the responses to the shooting from high-level members of the current administration, like Kristi Noem, are dishonest and dangerous.

While I agree with the majority of your post, i dont think it is impossible to both support current laws and defend this shooting. Part of 2A rights is understanding that humans are flawed and having the right to bear arms comes with risks/responsibility. If you put yourself into a tense confrontation while carrying, there is a chance that the fact you are carrying will turn out badly due to human error. The facts of the case are ugly and unfortunate, but when a law enforcement officer hears "gun, gun, gun" and a round goes off, they are likely legitimately fearing for their life.

Defending the DHS, Noem, Bovino, etc's reaction on the other end should be impossible..

 

[Dougfirtree]

While I agree with the majority of your post, i dont think it is impossible to both support current laws and defend this shooting. Part of 2A rights is understanding that humans are flawed and having the right to bear arms comes with risks/responsibility. If you put yourself into a tense confrontation while carrying, there is a chance that the fact you are carrying will turn out badly due to human error. The facts of the case are ugly and unfortunate, but when a law enforcement officer hears "gun, gun, gun" and a round goes off, they are likely legitimately fearing for their life.

Defending the DHS, Noem, Bovino, etc's reaction on the other end should be impossible..

Yeah, I suspect we're not all that far apart on this. I'm not incapable of seeing the situation from their perspective. I don't believe that they just decided to execute someone on the street because they didn't like him. But being understandable and being defensible are different, IMO.

 

[rtraverdavis]

While I agree with the majority of your post, i dont think it is impossible to both support current laws and defend this shooting. Part of 2A rights is understanding that humans are flawed and having the right to bear arms comes with risks/responsibility. If you put yourself into a tense confrontation while carrying, there is a chance that the fact you are carrying will turn out badly due to human error. The facts of the case are ugly and unfortunate, but when a law enforcement officer hears "gun, gun, gun" and a round goes off, they are likely legitimately fearing for their life.

Defending the DHS, Noem, Bovino, etc's reaction on the other end should be impossible..

Very much agree with your last paragraph, but not the first. I’m open to the learn more of the facts that led to what happened, but Pretti sure didn’t appear to be looking for a confrontation in those videos. The ICE agents however…

I get that he was there, camera up, in the middle of it, but in my mind that is far different than getting in those agents’ faces pushing and shoving. It looked like peaceful assembly on his part.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Tribalism is gross. The same arguments in similar situations with different political settings are parroted by the opposite sides of this one.

 

[HappyCamper]

That attorney’s tweet is poorly written and too vague. Yes, you will be shot if you exhibit the Ability, opportunity, intent to use the weapon. Remove any of those three and there is no justification for force. Lots of feeling and politics at play in this stuff, not so much common sense.

 

[El Jason]

but when a law enforcement officer hears "gun, gun, gun" and a round goes off, they are likely legitimately fearing for their life.

That still doesn’t warrant firing without being able to articulate what the imminent threat is.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

I usually leave my Glock at home when I participate in peaceful protests. I’m more of a rape whistle/angry yelling kind of guy. And when I see pepper spray- I run the opposite direction. That shit stings the nostrils!

This guy will be a national hero before it’s all over. There will be a pretti good monument standing in city hall.

 

[nrpate05]

Didn't think I would see the day when a conservative administration is actively going after the second amendment. Whether the victim 'should have' or 'shouldn't have' brought a gun doesn't matter. He was completely within his legal rights.

Now the Republicans are anti public lands and anti 2A. For me, the choice is easy.

 

[Birdbander]

I have no remorse for either person killed. I'm all for any investigation running It's course in either instance and also won't lose sleep if no investigations occur.

I don't believe there's a push to restrict current 2A rights but it makes a good wedge to further split Americans.

I'm of the belief that for far too long people have been allowed to push the bounds of protest so far that a true protest hardly exists, instead its organized anti government rioting.
People have gotten so used to being allowed to break the law rioting against law enforcement that they can't comprehend the force needed to attempt to enforce the law.

This is all coming to a head after decades of ignoring how to properly deal with illegal immigration.

I'm confident that America will survive and be a better place for all.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Speaking of rocket science- did anybody see the video of the rioter that picked up a hot flash bang?!? Note to self, while peacefully protesting, don’t do that.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Didn't think I would see the day when a conservative administration is actively going after the second amendment

Where’d you see that day?

 

[TOGIE]

Is it a better sign of a healthy society that a few people, with complex, nuanced opinions, step back and forth from side to side, or that there are some lines in the sand where everyone agrees it's been crossed? I would suggest the latter. And that even if the majority in Congress changes, the majority of "Americans (popular vote)" will still be aligned with the current administration. Which doesn't really change anything.

We exist in a time and place where we (society) can't agree on whether or not lines are crossed because there is fundamental disagreement on the facts in spite of evidence. People's politics form and inform their opinions instead of their opinions forming and informing their politics.

This isn't new, though. Many high profile police killings over the years have shown that. In fact, it's probably as old as human existence itself and will remain true forever - everyone will never agree on something, ever, for eternity.

There is no line in the sand that society will collectively agree has been crossed. But, as there is a shift in the line of thinking to the point that a majority are now thinking a line, or lines, have been crossed, well, that's a scary place to be if you're the politicians supposedly crossing said lines, if you ask me.

The 2024 vote is over. It's 2026 now and new votes are coming. It will be determined what those votes say about this administration.

I'm guessing it's gonna show some folks have changed their mind.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Speaking of rocket science- did anybody see the video of the rioter that picked up a hot flash bang?!? Note to self, while peacefully protesting, don’t do that.

I heard someone lost a finger the other day. Was that how it happened?

 

[BrentD]

Didn't think I would see the day when a conservative administration is actively going after the second amendment. Whether the victim 'should have' or 'shouldn't have' brought a gun doesn't matter. He was completely within his legal rights.

Now the Republicans are anti public lands and anti 2A. For me, the choice is easy.

I have always expected it.

It is interesting to contrast the administration's blather about Pretti with their worshipping Kyle Rittenhouse, if you remember him.

Kyle Rittenhouse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you are a Republican or a maga, because of their alleged stance on 2A, you are a sucker. It is just a matter of time before they come for you too.

The only solution to this problem will come from the Republicans. They are gonna have to stand up and gut it out.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Honest question.

Can we not support ICE/LEO's and Pretti's right to carry at the same time? (to clarify - not the specific act of ICE shooting Pretti based on the current available video/facts, but the overall idea of immigration enforcement through ICE)

Yes, it seems like ICE made a mistake resulting in an unnecessary tragic fatality based on the video, but I agree with the OP that I'm holding my opinion until an investigation is conducted.

We seem to have lost due process sometime between 2015 and 2020 when everyone got smart phones and started uploading incredibly tragic videos showing fellow citizens dying to social media for all to play judge and jury and decide what happened, who is wrong and what should be the punishment before the day is even over, let alone an investigation conducted. Apparently a 30-60 second video and our 180 degree human/political biases is all we need to tear ourselves apart.

Whatever happened to united we stand, divided we fall?

 

[Big Sky Guy]

I have always expected it.

It is interesting to contrast the administration's blather about Pretti with their worshipping Kyle Rittenhouse, if you remember him.

Kyle Rittenhouse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you are a Republican or a maga, because of their alleged stance on 2A, you are a sucker. It is just a matter of time before they come for you too.

The only solution to this problem will come from the Republicans. They are gonna have to stand up and gut it out.

Cousin of Illinois States QB Rittenhouse that almost beat the cats in the FBS Natty earlier this year, FYI. I looked it up during the game because the name sounded so familiar.

 

[SaskHunter]

So much winning !!!

 

[Gulf of America]

Yes, it seems like ICE made a mistake resulting in an unnecessary tragic fatality based on the video, but I agree with the OP that I'm holding my opinion until an investigation is conducted.

If you believe the administration is going to be remotely truthful in their "investigation," could I get the deets on your dealer? Must be some good shit.