New Mex Landowner Tag Fiasco!

[jimss]

I usually don't try to "stir the pot" but what is going on in NM just doesn't seem right and has haunted me for years.

If you are a DIY hunter that prefers to draw a tag and hunt public land it currently is not possible to do this in NM with rifle. NMG&F attempted to change this in 2011, however, it didn't happen. I am hoping that more NM residents and DIY hunters catch on to what is going on and change the system.

How many of you are aware that 45% of NM is public land and currently 80% of the total NM rifle antelope tags are issued as landowner tags? The remaining 20% of tags are issued in a drawing with 2 to 5% draw odds. Nonres draw odds may likely decrease even more if NM residents get their way and decrease nonres tags.

Public tags are not issued for hunting unit-wide. Hunters are "assigned" 1 of many ranches within a unit or group of units. It is impossible to research to draw a specific ranch or unit. Many of the ranches are very small and have few antelope. Your odds of drawing a public tag are only 2 to 5% and the odds of drawing a good unit are almost 0.

NM is the only state in the country that doesn't issue unit-wide antelope draw tags and offers such a high percentage of the tags to landowners. Obviously if you can afford these tags it is an incredible deal but if you are like many guys on this site that can't afford these hunts and prefer to hunt on your own it is not possible with the current system.

If you have the chance, get in touch with the NMG&F and explain your concerns in regard to the present system. Hopefully this system will change in the near future so more DIY hunters can hunt antelope with rifle on public land in NM!

 

[Big Fin]

Jim - nice to see you around. Thanks for posting. I suspect most are not aware of how the system works for pronghorn in NM.

What Jim is referring to below applies to rifle tags, not archery tags. With archery tags you are allowed to hunt any public land, or any private land you can get access to, within your hunting unit. With rifle tags, you are assigned a ranch as Jim has stated.

Public tags are not issued for hunting unit-wide. Hunters are "assigned" 1 of many ranches within a unit or group of units. It is impossible to research to draw a specific ranch or unit. Many of the ranches are very small and have few antelope. Your odds of drawing a public tag are only 2 to 5% and the odds of drawing a good unit are almost 0.

I know NM has a lot of public land. Depending upon who you talk to, the antelope habitat is more heavily weighted to private land, so that is the rationale that is given for allocating so many tags to the private landowners. Whether or not the private antelope habitat is 80% of the antelope in NM, I don't know. How the landowner voucher system came about in NM, and how it has grown to the point it has, I don't know that either.

I have hunted antelope in NM four times. I drew a third choice rifle tag, after ten years of applying, and was assigned a very marginal ranch. We shot two of the few bucks on the property.

The next year, my wife bought me a landowner voucher as a gift. It was an amazing hunt, and we were there hunting shoulder to shoulder with the lucky public draw hunters assigned to the ranch. But, the odds of drawing that rifle tag are as Jim mentioned.

The last two years I have applied for an archery pronghorn tag, as it is much easier to draw and much cheaper than a landowner voucher. And, you are not tied to the specific ranch you are assigned. One year we drew our third choice and one year we drew our first choice.

As a non-resident, I struggle to involve myself in New Mexico hunting politics, or politics of any other state for that matter. It is their wildlife to manage on behalf of their citizens. They will do what they think is best for their citizens. As a non-resident, I will deal with whatever system they come up with and view any opportunity shared with non-residents to be a bonus.

Every state has their own ideas of how opportunity can be allocated and provided. Whether that is OTC tags, landowner vouchers, 10% limits, bonus and preference points, outfitter tag pools, and you name it. Whatever self-guided options they come up with, expect Fin to be applying for any and all of those options.

Why CO, WY, and historically, NM, have been so generous to NRs, is somewhat of a mystery to me. I know how well those high non-resident percentages would fly in my home state of MT. Let's just say there would be a march on the Capitol. But, it is the decision of CO, WY, and NM to decide what balance they want, and if they continue to be generous, I will gladly apply for the opportunities they provide us NRs.

OR is notoriously stingy with NRs, and I understand why. They have huge demand from residents for the limited opportunity they can provide. So, NRs get a very small amount of leftovers for the limited entry tags. As such, I have decided to spend my money elsewhere.

That might be a strange view that I have taken. When people come to Montana with strange ideas, I will fight hard and long to see that the outcome is what is best for Montanans, and know non-residents will have to be a secondary consideration. Not for selfish reasons, just my belief in state management of wildlife being focused first on residents.

Since I hunt out of state more than I hunt in state, maybe I should be more keen on involving myself in politics of other states. But, for now, I deal with what they provide.

In addition to this antelope issue that Jim has pointed out, NM is currently having a knock down drag out about the resident/guided NR/self-guided NR percentages. Many have asked that our show and our site jump into the fray, but we have not. What NM decides is up to them. If it reduces NR opportunity, I will be bummed, but understand that resident opportunity comes first. If it increases NR opportunity, I will be happy.

All that being said, I certainly understand non-residents wanting to have a say in what is happening in states they hunt in or apply for tags in. Jim's post here being a very good start to a discussion.

Hopefully no one starts with the "It's public land/Federal land and us NRs should have equal opportunity" argument, as it will go downhill fast from there.

Jim is pretty modest, but I sure would love to seem him add pics of his, and his son's, pronghorn over on the pronghorn thread. He has shot some big ones, and lots of them. His modesty probably prevents him from posting such.

Thanks for the post, Jim.

 

[schmalts]

NM has a lot of NR hunting the elk and lopes. That is neither good or bad but what chaffs me is how many of the residents look at the numbers of NR hunters and don't understand why the numbers are so high. Bottom line is this, it is a flawed landowner tag system. Why a ranch can get a landowner Elk tag to be used for anywhere in the unit on public land baffles me.
But on the other hand, residents are free to buy those tags just the same. It is a double edged sword.

 

[mixedbag]

Seems to me NM is more interested in having NR hunters that have fat wallets only.All the stuff going on there made me quit thinking about applying there at all.I think the LO tags there are crazy how they're set up,and residents should be all over that..I also think its ridiculous to increase my odds I have to have an outfitter sponsor me.I don't mind the 10% NR tags,but I do mind how they are broken down.I did send e-mails to reps there,doubt it matters much.I wasn't asking for more NR tags.Just allow me the same odds to hunt how I want to.If this bill passes,I think draw odds will go down alot this year as alot will see it as their last real shot and apply.

 

[jimss]

NM Landowner tags..oh boy!

I think it is great there are forums like this where hunters can share their ideas. It is possible to share ideas that may improve a policy, hunting techniques, equipment, etc. It is pretty easy to sit behind a computer and say nothing…and just as easy to blatantly criticize each other in regard to heated issues! I think it's great when hunters can pool their thoughts with facts and constructive criticism to improve hunting for all of us!

One thing I have learned from hunting several states is that each state is a little different. We may not like the system in an adjoining state and it is pretty easy to sit back and accept it for what it is. For example: In Wyoming, the nonres guide in wilderness requirement…here in Colo nonres can not apply for ranching for wildlife tags, etc. Hopefully each state’s resident hunters have a fair say in influencing their particular state’s wildlife policies. States can learn a lot from the success and failures in surrounding states.

When I see something so blatantly wrong as the current NM rifle antelope system it is impossible for me to bite my tongue and look the other way! In frank words…NM residents that like to draw public tags and have the choice to hunt public or private land are being screwed! Every time I think about NM’s rifle antelope system the blood in my veins starts to boil! It seems to me that outfitters in NM have put shades over NM resident’s eyes. It doesn’t seem like NM res. are aware of the antelope resource that exists in their own great state and draw odds are so horrible they can hardly take advantage of it. Landowners have clouded their vision by offering “free and equal access” to private land that normally would not be available to the public. When you consider the figures in my previous post it is obvious to me who is getting screwed! I have basically listed facts related to outfitter tag numbers, public acreage, etc so that it will hopefully encourage NM residents and all of us to open our eyes!

One thing you must realize if you choose to sit back and watch is that if a system like this is possible in NM it can happen in your state as well! I will step up and do everything in my power to promote “on your own” hunting whether it is in my state or others! The facts are that 45% of NM is public land, 80% of current rifle tags are landowner tags, and the draw odds for a public tag where you have no idea which ranch you will be assigned is 2 to 5%. If you are a NM resident I hope you realize the opportunity you are missing out on with the current system.

You are probably asking what I gain from this post? I haven’t personally applied for a public antelope tag in NM for over 6 years and have never purchased a NM landowner tag. That is pretty hard for me since I’m an antelope hunting fanatic! You may also notice that I have never asked for more nonres tags in my posts!

I’m actually gaining nothing by my post other than hopefully opening some eyes to what is going on in NM and what can happen in your state if you aren’t careful!