NEW Ariz. 2005 Hunt Regs Info ...

[Nummie]

Bohntr, the regulation changes weren't made in retribution to challenges by USO, and others. They were considered very carefully to protect the interests of resident hunters and legitimate non-resident hunters, with an emphasis on avoiding exacerbation of an already adversarial situation with those who would love nothing more than to cause havoc for their own monetary gain. The ignorant G&F department would draw a line in the sand and dare anyone to cross. Those days are long gone. Better to pick your battles than to have to deal with some entity who has already decided where to pull the strings. If you can get drawn here in AZ, hell, give me a call. If I can direct you to a good spot, I surely will. Just please don't bring a USO affiliated outfitter with you!

 

[AZ402]

I'm not sure who Nummie is? but I like him..........

 

[Lv2hnt]

Roy:

You know Stan and I would be happy to see you draw an elk tag here in Az. (just not before us --- LOL!). Seriously, give me a jingle when the tag fairy visits your front porch; I'd love to share camp and call in Senor Grande for you!

--- Tom

 

[elkay]

I like all you az guys!! elkay. Come on bull elk and mule deer strip tag!!! elkay

 

[Funter]

Nummie,

My wife works front counter at the Greenway office and that is how she explained it to me. Give her a call she would be more than happy to explain it further. The loyalty point is a one time thing.If you dont get drawn you get a point and a loyalty point for this year.If you put in next year you get a point no loyalty point.The loyalty point carries over you dont get an additional loyalty point for each year you dont get drawn.


A loyalty bonus point has been created. A single loyalty bonus point will be awarded for people who buy a license and apply for big game hunts for five consecutive years. The point is genus specific and will be retained as long as the hunter continues to apply each calendar year for that genus. The starting year for record keeping purposes is 2001. So, anyone who applies for a genus, and has applied for that same genus every year beginning in 2001, will earn a loyalty bonus point for that genus in this drawing. A proposed conservation bonus point that hunters can earn for volunteer effort is in the rulemaking process and will not be in place for the fall 2005 draw.

 

[Hunter_AZ]

I agree with Nummie, It's getting to the point that a working man can not even afford to take his son hunting. Hell you can't even park in Oak Creek without a parking permit, it used to be a free country.

 

[Funter]

Yup if they start raising the prices only the rich will be able to hunt.I now have three people to come up with the money for.

 

[BuzzH]

You guys in AZ have yourselves to thank for the increased fees, up-front fees, and hunting license requirement. You wont be getting any sympathy from me on the fees and requirements, so bitch all you want. You called it down, you live with it.

I think its an even better deal for me, less residents in the draw increase my odds. I dont think you'll have every bum in AZ putting their grandpa, mom, uncle, cousin etc. in for the tags anymore now the money has to be fronted.

Seems to me all AZ has done is made the drawing odds for the wealthy even better...good job guys....you sure showed Taulman who's boss. Taulman will come out of this thing better off than he was. He'll have plenty of clients to guide, you've insured that.

 

[Delw]

Buzz. I agree

AZG&F's biggest screw up was listening to the public.

some of the changes are great but when it comes to pimping bonus points I mean come on. a loyalty bonus point? a conservation bonus point, what a joke.


Delw

 

[Nummie]

If you guys had taken the time to attend the public meetings, and listened to a rational dialogue, you might understand the complete issue. We are not "bitching", but we are attempting to help guide changes that will surely happen sooner......and later. I'm not one to stick my head in the sand and wait for someone else to dictate what happens to my hunting future. I'd rather face it head-on, and then I can at least say i tried. I suggest you learn as much as you can about the issue prior to pontificating. Makes more sense to me, anyway.

 

[BuzzH]

Nummie,

All I hear from the AZ residents in this thread is a bunch of belly-aching about how much it costs for tags and putting your kids in for the draws.

The "rational dialogue" you're referring to did NOTHING to slow Taulman down, in fact, as I've pointed out to you its HELPED him. Do you really think that jacking up NR fees a couple bucks and requiring up-front money and purchasing a license will slow Taulmans business in the slightest? Most of his clients already bought the license for the point, his clients are still using credit cards to pay for the tags they draw and the license fees. What did the AZ residents prove by passing all these ridiculous new regulations?

Nothing, other than hurting themselves and the average guy. The well-heeled hunters are licking their chops at the new rules and now have an equal shot at YOUR tags.

Taulman is laughing his ass off right now, as he single-handedly kicked the AZ residents in the nuts WHILE you had your head in the sand. Who won the lawsuit again???? Who was "pontificating"???? Who is dictating policy in AZ?

I'd sure hate to see what happens when the AZ residents really take a beating if you view this as one for the "win" column...

 

[Delw]

Nummie,
I was going to go to the meetings until I read on the internet about people pimping bonus points for there own self centered ideas that only had to do with them selfs. Those people dont give a rats ass about anything or any body else except themselves.

You tell me whats the point of pimping bonus points. What good did it do?

See thats the problem with letting the public decide on things, half the people doont know jack about what they are talking about. they only care about themselves.


Delw

 

[cjcj]

Well i have never bitched about the tag prices in AZ...But You damn right i`m thinking about myself..and admit to being selfish about me and all AZ residents... Buzz your way wrong if you think those little increases will stop AZ residents from putting everyone in for a hunt [granny,sister, brother,etc.etc.] You think that only out of staters have money?,, and no matter what you do the "Big Money Boys" will always have and advantage... If it was up to me {Mr. selfish] i would award a bonus pt. for EVERY year of residency.... Maybe just Maybe i will get a Bighorn of Buffalo tag before i die. 51 now and will need every advantage i can get.... To hell with the non- residents and again if left up to me i wouldn`t give them any tags at all unless there were "left-over" tags. Stay home and hunt your own Elk/deer/ antelope......whos the selfish ones when you have all of the tags plus leftover and then you come down here to try to get one of ours in my opinion,,,,any hunter from Montana/Wyoming/colorado? idaho, who puts in down here for a Species that is abundent in their state are the "selfish" one not us. hump

 

[Funter]

Lets wait and see how Wyoming fairs after Taulman gets done with it.

 

[Joe C]

So what your saying is (We made our bed now We get to sleep in it) Thats O.K with me. I'm with cjcj why don't ALL you guys that live in states with all the same species as us hunt THERE. Lets talk about GREED how many species and states do I put in for? 1 right here were I live. How about You? When is enough enough?

Joe

 

[BuzzH]

cjcj,

I guess where we differ, is I'm not selfish enough to not let another U.S. citizen hunt my state. There arent enough sheep, moose, and goat tags in MT or WY for all the residents to draw, but I dont mind that in some cases a NR will draw and kill one long before I ever get the chance.

Also, its fair to note that if it werent for NR, you're licenses would have to be significantly higher than they are currently. Someone has to fund the game and fish.

By the way, I will draw a bull elk tag and a coues deer tag in your state someday...thems the breaks. Even though elk are abundant in Wyoming, I'm a greedy bastage and want mine plus one of yours.

One other thing that I wonder about though is why you bother putting in for a sheep tag in AZ??? It would be a real shame to see someone draw one and not be able to hunt it. To get a good ram in AZ you need to be pretty mobile and it sounds like you'd be stuck to the roads. No disrespect, but you having that tag would be a real struggle and one you'd more than likely not fill. I wouldnt put in for a tag like that unless I was 100% sure I could physically hack it.

To each their own...

Funter, Wyoming will not fall victim to Taulman, unlike you dumbshits in AZ. Wyoming has 25% of all available tags alloted to NR's already....way more than what Taulman sued for in AZ. Taulman agreed to not sue if NR's were awarded a guaranteed 10% of your tags.

Real smart move...

 

[BuzzH]

Joe C.

I have an idea...bite me.

I put in for every state with sheep except for Washington and California. I also put in for javelina, coues deer, elk, antelope, and desert sheep in AZ.

You're more than welcome to apply in Wyoming, and unlike you greedy bastard AZ half-wits, I'd be happy to help you out with the tag once you drew it.

I should never have written letters to your game and fish commissioners, or your fish and game director voicing support of you whiners...I should have sent my support to Taulman. Now that I see the true colors coming out...maybe you deserved it.

 

[Funter]

Buzz,
Wouldn't hold my breath on it.Taken from a press release from USO.


We are still waiting on the Tenth Circuit Court in Denver to rule on our case (Shutz vs Wyoming) presented to the court last March

 

[BuzzH]

Funter,

What I do know is that a judge is much less likely to rule against a state on the interstate commerce case if the state has 25% of all goat, sheep, moose, antelope, elk, and deer tags set aside for NR's.

Its a much tougher case to win on under those circumstances than AZ not guaranteeing even a single tag...dont you think????

The residents and the AZGF screwed themselves on this one...bigtime. If you dont like the outcome kindly step up to the mirror and blame the guy stareing you in the face...

 

[Nummie]

Gentlemen, don't fall victim to BuzzH. I have a feeling he has an agenda that we're not likely to ever be privy to. Look at his profile....."Occupation-Research/Natural Resources". If that's correct, then just maybe he has a vested interest in this issue, and everything he writes should be considered accordingly......If he is "embellishing" his occupation, then his word is probably not worth reading anyway. Also, keep in mind this board is "Hunt Talk", where it's apparently ok to talk trash till the cows come home without retribution, and flaming someone is an art form, regardless of cogent content of prose. I do understand that, and if some of you believe what you read and choose to look into a particular issue further, then I've successfully communicated with those who matter anyway. If you think I'm full of shit, fine, that's your right. If you see some kernal of truth, honesty, and sincerity in my goals, great!

The rebuttal of BuzzH and other posts should be weighed against that of those who are sincerely trying to solve the problems of the hunter and outdoorsman in today's world, (you all decide), and if you feel the need to verify facts, then by all means, do so. If you just want to open your mouth and say words, without regard to those words' validity, then you are free to do that also. I believe that intelligent individuals will elect to look into this issue further. Those are the people I will be happy to communicate with. Any asshole can have an opinion, but not just any man with a voice will be listened to and respected for it. Remember, the saying "knowledge is power" is still appropriate today.

BTW, I will not respond to further inflamatory posts by those who I suspect would not understand anyway. If you are interested in an intelligent discussion of this multi-faceted issue, pro or con, feel free to respond. If not, please don't try to waste my time, because you won't. JMHO