Need help with understanding my groups

[Chingon]

Check suppressor is tight, check action screws. Were scope bases/rings properly mounted with degreased screws and a torque wrench?

10 round groups are the minimum I trust for a solid zero. Same ammo lot if using different boxes? Lot to lot factory ammo can be dramatically different.

 

[El Jason]

My experience is a thick barrel can keep a group. On the other hand my 700 mountain rifle with its pencil thin barrel will do exactly what is happening here.

It’s not meant to shoot groups with, it’s meant to be light and climb with. It prints a nice 3 shot but try and push it to a 5 shot and it will open up.

His is a 6lb rifle. Not sure what more he expected.

I’m not arguing your experience. I’ve had several pencil barrel rifles that would shoot the same size group regardless of spacing out shots or rattling them through as fast as I could load them.

Accuracy of the rifle is what is, and I agree a 6 lb rifle is harder to shoot than a 10 lb rifle. A good barrel will hold a group. A thick barrel that’s a true 1.5 MOA barrel will show this same trend.

All I’m saying is quit hunting for excuses. Find out what the shooter is capable of and the rifle. My Kimber is a 1.2 MOA gun, which doesn’t sound sexy but is plenty good to kill stuff and is well tested over a lot of rounds. Three shot groups look nice on paper and that’s about it.

 

[CoHunter1991]

What chambering in the rifle and how good of a shooter are you?

It’s 300wm and today showed me I got alot to work on as a shooter. I’m not a horrible shooter but not great.Ha

 

[CoHunter1991]

A consistent 1/2-3/4” shooter doesn’t ask internet strangers what’s wrong with their groups. Not throwing shade as Im not a consistent shooter either. Put some more rounds through it without cleaning and see what you get

Yeah I definitely need to just put in more time behind the gun shooting larger shot groups with more cooling time. I wish I was a consistent 1/2-3/4 shooter, I just didn’t understand the change

 

[Addicting]

It’s 300wm and today showed me I got alot to work on as a shooter. I’m not a horrible shooter but not great.Ha

That’s a lot of cartridge in a lightweight package. Even with the suppression you have to remember that is not a bench rifle and quit expecting it to be one.

 

[Fire_9]

Yeah I definitely need to just put in more time behind the gun shooting larger shot groups with more cooling time. I wish I was a consistent 1/2-3/4 shooter, I just didn’t understand the change

A lot of us have spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out what the change is only to realize it was us all along. Just know you’re in good company lol

 

[shannerdrake]

That’s a lot of cartridge in a lightweight package. Even with the suppression you have to remember that is not a bench rifle and quit expecting it to be one.

I am with Addicting on this one. 26rd in a day out of a 300WM from a bench is a lot.

I’m a bigger guy who grew up on slug guns and 3.5in goose and turkey loads yet the 300WM wears me out from a bench.

However, worse than fighting the recoil, is fighting the heat. My barrel gets hot easy and my groups open up. I keep wet towels in ziploc bags in a cooler of ice and give 5min between shots. Also a suppressor significantly increases barrel heat.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Any barrel that won’t shoot tight until mirage off my suppressor (with mirage cover) impacts shooting is defective far as I’m concerned. I’ve owned too many that don’t have these “hot barrel” problems to think otherwise. It’s usually the opposite, shooting a bunch without breaking position = tighter groups because you’re addressing the rifle the same shot to shot.

That said, the two seekins 300 WM PH barrels I had wouldn’t shoot tight with 5+ round groups but I don’t think it was totally heat related. But they got replaced by a barrel that worked like it’s supposed to.

 

[CoHunter1991]

If the barrel feels warm but not hot can it still be effecting poi?

 

[El Jason]

If the barrel feels warm but not hot can it still be effecting poi?

If it does it’s a crappy barrel. More than likely it’s the nut behind the trigger or the barrel is just shooting what it’s capable of in real life.

 

[CoHunter1991]

Interesting, I always I have read heat will open up groups especially with light barrels

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

Any other ideas on why the velocity spike on the second session? I have never had a 40 fps jump in velocity on a barrel that was cool enough to touch. Everyone is focusing on the group size but the velocity change is a more perplexing issue in my opinion.

 

[kiwi hunter]

Im going the opposite way, fire one shot, if its where it should be then fire one more, if its near enough to touching then stop. Your work is done because youre sighting in a hunting rifle. If your intention is to blast ten or more rounds thru the thing get a heavy barreled comp rifle.

 

[CoHunter1991]

Any other ideas on why the velocity spike on the second session? I have never had a 40 fps jump in velocity on a barrel that was cool enough to touch. Everyone is focusing on the group size but the velocity change is a more perplexing issue in my opinion.

Yeah i merged the two sessions last night and i am seeing less of an average spread between them then i had originally thought, closer to 20 FPS which isn't bad at all. the ammo did have a ES of 100 for all 26 rounds so that's not great.

 

[Fire_9]

Any other ideas on why the velocity spike on the second session? I have never had a 40 fps jump in velocity on a barrel that was cool enough to touch. Everyone is focusing on the group size but the velocity change is a more perplexing issue in my opinion.

It might take a little bit for the velocity settle after cleaning.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Any other ideas on why the velocity spike on the second session? I have never had a 40 fps jump in velocity on a barrel that was cool enough to touch. Everyone is focusing on the group size but the velocity change is a more perplexing issue in my opinion.

1 FPS per degree ambient isn't unusual velocity migration depending on the ammo. Sounds like he was less than that.

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

Yeah i merged the two sessions last night and i am seeing less of an average spread between them then i had originally thought, closer to 20 FPS which isn't bad at all. the ammo did have a ES of 100 for all 26 rounds so that's not great.

Ok that definitely changes things. I know that norma makes good components but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they load high quality ammo. I bought a couple boxes of 180 grain bond strike in 300 wsm a few years ago, just because I use norma brass and couldn’t find any new brass. I shot both boxes and was not impressed with the accuracy, but didn’t chronograph it. That rifle is a light weight browning and it does very well with lighter weight copper bullets. In my opinion a light weight rifle does best with light weight bullets because of the recoil. In addition to kicking the crap out of you, recoil causes the gun to move more and makes your point of impact change more when you have inconsistency in your rest, shoulder contact, etc. In my wsm a 150 grain Barnes consistently drops animals out to 500 yards and looking at ballistic charts a 130 grain would probably do the same.

 

[Gulf of America]

Ok that definitely changes things. I know that norma makes good components but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they load high quality ammo. I bought a couple boxes of 180 grain bond strike in 300 wsm a few years ago, just because I use norma brass and couldn’t find any new brass. I shot both boxes and was not impressed with the accuracy, but didn’t chronograph it. That rifle is a light weight browning and it does very well with lighter weight copper bullets. In my opinion a light weight rifle does best with light weight bullets because of the recoil. In addition to kicking the crap out of you, recoil causes the gun to move more and makes your point of impact change more when you have inconsistency in your rest, shoulder contact, etc. In my wsm a 150 grain Barnes consistently drops animals out to 500 yards and looking at ballistic charts a 130 grain would probably do the same.

My Rem 700 in 7 Rem Mag hated the box of Bondstrike I tried - I don't have as many years hunting/shooting under my belt as many here, but it was the first time I've seen a particular load group massively different in a rifle than any other. Both Federal Trophy Copper and Barnes VorTx 150's group under an inch all day and POI is within a half inch. With the Bondstrike, my POI shifted 4 inches right and 3 down and the groups were 3+ inches.

 

[Fire_9]

My paper stays with me these days. mtmuley

Curiosity is getting the better of me. What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[CoHunter1991]

My Rem 700 in 7 Rem Mag hated the box of Bondstrike I tried - I don't have as many years hunting/shooting under my belt as many here, but it was the first time I've seen a particular load group massively different in a rifle than any other. Both Federal Trophy Copper and Barnes VorTx 150's group under an inch all day and POI is within a half inch. With the Bondstrike, my POI shifted 4 inches right and 3 down and the groups were 3+ inches.

That is good to know. my 3006 shoots the Bondstrike lights out so i assumed the same but the velocity data concerns me. 100 ES is a lot. Ill look at other options.