Need help with choice of weapon

[buffybr]

OK, I've only been hunting since the mid '60s, annually in Colorado or Montana along with a dozen or more international hunts, and I have never heard of class 2 or 3 game animals, and what I thought a manbun was is a girly-boy haircut that looks like the knot tying off a garbage bag.

So back to the OP's original question, when I started hunting deer and elk, the locals that I worked with in NW Colorado who had hunted since they were old enough to, told me to get a .270 Win or .30-06. I went with a .30-06 and for a dozen years it put many deer, elk, and antelope into my freezer. I now have a safe full of rifles from .22 LR and .223 to .375 RUM, including a .270 Win, .308 Win, and .30-06 that the OP mentioned. Almost all of my hunting is spot and stalk.

For hunting in inclement weather, I like stainless steel rifles with composite stocks. All of my hunting rifles have at least 24" barrels. I have had good luck with Weatherby Vanguard rifles, including SS versions in .223 Rem and .308 Win, and my favorite elk and all-a-round rifle a blued .300 Weatherby. My Vanguard in .308 Win with it's Leupold VX 3i 4.5-14x40 weighs 8.75 pounds.

Most of my hunting rifles have Leupold scopes with my favorite being the VX 3i 4.5-14x40 with the side focus and CDS reticle.

I regularly practice (weekly) out to 430 yards, but I have never shot an animal at over 350 yards.

IMO for someone who primarily hunts deer, a Vanguard, Howa, Savage 110, or Remington 700 chambered in 7-08 or .308 Win would be an excellent choice rifle. If you add elk or moose, I would move up to a .30-06, 7 mm Rem mag, or even .300 Win mag.

 

[Bigjav]

Any of the cartridges listed will get the job done if you do your part. However also being from commifornia another thing to consider is the availability of lead free ammunition, especially with the bullshit ammo purchasing restrictions

 

[Don Fischer]

If I plan on shooting beyond 200yds I like to shoot flat, so I’d lean .270Win, .280Rem, or .30-06 over the manbun or the .308Win. Also, while a 140gr 6.5mm bullet will do just fine on an elk, I would feel even better about 155gr+.

That said, it’s just a leaning on both counts. With factory ammo, the 30-06 has very little advantage over the .308Win, especially in the 150gr-168gr range, and if you go much over that you aren’t shooting all that flat with either one. I shot my deer this year at 300yds with a .308win producing a muzzle velocity of a whopping 2450fps, so it’s not like you HAVE to shoot flat. It’s just nice.

If I was picking the cartridge I’d be looking really hard at the .270 or .280. If I was picking the rifle, I’d be looking really hard at Tikka and Howa for a gun you aren’t going to modify, or a Rem 700 if you thought you might ever tinker with it. I’d probably pick the rifle I wanted and allow that to dictate the cartridge choice. The 6.5CM, 7-08, and .308 will all get the job done if you find yourself wanting a S/A. I’ve never been bothered by L/As and think that issue is overblown.

It’s really in excess of 300yds that flatter trajectories start to be a significant advantage, but you said out to 400yds. It’s possible to shoot well beyond that with a rainbow trajectory, but to say that there’s no advantage to shooting flat at 300yds+ would be incorrect.

Could you define flat?

 

[ImBillT]

Could you define flat?

Flat is relative. He named six cartridges. The three long actions cartridges will all shoot flatter than their three short action counter parts. .270Win vs Manbun, 7mm-08 vs 280Rem, and .308Win vs 30-06.

The 7-08 vs 280Rem is a very fair comparison. With 140gr bullets the .280Rem produces about 200fps more muzzle velocity than the the 7-08, and almost 3.9” less drop at 400yds, and 6.9” less at 500yds. The 270Win does not produce the same advantage over the 6.5CM with same weight bullets because it’s SD drops. Comparing a 6.5-06 using the same bullet shows a 3.8” and 6.7” advantage over the 6.5 CM. I stated in my initial post that the 30-06 has limited advantage over the .308Win if one is limited to factory ammo. This is due to the old pressure spec. If one is handloading up the same pressure as a .308Win the velocity advantage goes from about 50fps up to about 200fps, and with a 168VLD in both, the 30-06 gets an advantage of 4.1” and 7.2”.

Are the differences huge? No. Are they the difference between a quick kill and a long track job? Possibly. The higher velocity combinations also had lower peaks above zero in case you made a shot in the 50-150yd range. They also all had less wind drift.

I also said the short action cartridges he’d mentioned would work fine.

 

[mtmuley]

How in the Hell did critters die before all this great info from the net? mtmuley

 

[elkhnter]

Don’t know, but now they’d be bored to death if they could read.

 

[Roughwater]

Ive owned a 270 and they are pretty flat shooting for sure. But someone hinted that a 140 gn 6.5 bullet is a little light for Elk, but the most common 270 round is 130 gn through loaded ammo goes up to 150gn. A 3006 is kind of a Magnum compared to a 308 but the 308 is really efficient compared to the 06. The 7-08 is pretty efficient as well since it's kinda like a 7mm bullet in a 308 case.
Any of the guns you mentioned would work for your needs. Some would just work a little better for taking an Elk at Range. The 7mm bullet will have a little more frontal area than the 270 and if the 7-08 has a 9 twist barrel or faster you can shoot a pretty hefty bullet of at least 160 gn I'd guess and would likely be pretty light weight. Whatever scope you keep it at about 42 mm then you can use low rings and keep it close to the barrel as well as keeping the weight down. But again, use good bullets and common sense and any rifle that you mentioned will work. I best like a rifle with the word magnum in it for Elk even though it's not a necessity.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

I had reduced my arsenal down to a mere single Marlin 45-70 GS JM in the last few months (good up to 200 yds). I have been studying having one 300-400 yd rifle for general hunting (deer/elk etc). I've debated about 270/308, 7mm-08, 3006 and manbuns. I've seen a stainless Weatherby 308 24" cheap, a 270 Howa black 22" cheap, a 270 Win sporter 'cheaper', a new Tikka T3x lite blued manbun cheap ($475) and a Browning 7mm-08 micro hunter (old stock like new) blued/walnut in the low 600's.

I'm concerned on weight and rust reduction....but mostly on being able to carry out to 400 max with a standard Leupold Vx1 type scope. I'm in my 60's....I'm not a daily hunter..but I do like to hike and carry via sling, so I would love your thoughts......and thank you!

I bought a Tikka Stainless Lite last year. I bought it because when I asked about my options, I was told by more than a few that the Tikka are very consistent from gun to gun.

I bought the Tikka, SWFA 6X Classic scope, and Sportsmatch TO84 rings. It seems to like most ammo just fine, and will put 10 rounds in about 3/4" group at 100 yards.

It works as I was told.

As far as caliber, most will work fine. The 6.5 MB is pretty cheap to shoot if you are buying ammo.

 

[Jeffminokla]

Hard to beat a Tikka t3lite in 7mm -08 or better yet a 7mm Mag

+1

 

[quiet22]

If you had the choice between a stainless Weatherby Van S2 308 vs T3X man-bun blue and a T3X hunter blue 30-06....which would you choose knowing my general parameters?

And do any of you have any discomfort with the weight of the Weatherby 24" tube or the lack of free floating aspects. Or are you more uncomfortable with the 'blue' finish on T3X and rust?

 

[AmericanLongrifle]

If you had the choice between a stainless Weatherby Van S2 308 vs T3X man-bun blue and a T3X hunter blue 30-06....which would you choose knowing my general parameters?

And do any of you have any discomfort with the weight of the Weatherby 24" tube or the lack of free floating aspects. Or are you more uncomfortable with the 'blue' finish on T3X and rust?

Blued finish will only rust if you dont take care of your weapon. I wipe my rifle down everytime I come back to camp or come home from the field. Never had an issue.

 

[quiet22]

Well..........the moment came......and thank you to all who have tried to help/direct me. I just purchased a new Weatherby Vanguard S2 stainless 270 win 24" barrel. Wish me luck! (paid $405 bidding on GB). Maybe it's time to sell my mint JM GS 45-70 from 2004.

 

[buffybr]

How in the Hell did critters die before all this great info from the net? mtmuley

Because back then people learned to hunt and went out and filled their tags, instead of now where people sit in front of a box of wires and over analyze hunting and shooting.

 

[RevJim]

You could get a very good price for a JM Marlin 1895 GS, but it still makes a great "nasty weather", close cover rifle! I say hang on to it! I'm using a .270W this year on a cow elk hunt, will see if I can get the 129 LRX shooting well. I think a .270w (with a mono bullet for sure) is just fine for elk. I base that on the elk I've seen piled up here in Utah camps that have been killed with 270 factory ammo of all kinds, ha. Have a ball pard!

 

[quiet22]

Thanks RevJim for your thoughts. I won't sell so quickly...you're right. Went last night to see my new rifle and fill in the Federal/Cali paperwork. I was truly surprised at what I saw. The build quality of the Weatherby Vanguard stainless 270 was way beyond what I have read and way beyond the low end rifles that I have handled and owned. The weight was nothing also...very well balanced....can't wait for my 10 day waiting period to end so I can test for factory lead free ammo preference. I've bought the Nosler Etips, Fed copper and Hornady outfitter...all in 130 grain. Will see which groups....... Anyways....quite excited to scope (have a Leupold 3-9 Marksman/windage) and test this bad boy (girl).

 

[Don Fischer]

I regularly practice (weekly) out to 430 yards, but I have never shot an animal at over 350 yards.

430 yds? Where did you come up with that number?

 

[buffybr]

430 yds? Where did you come up with that number?

When they built the target backstop berms at our range, they put a backstop at 400 yds, then they stretched one more berm as far as the topography would allow which was 430 yards. Since then people no longer use the 400 yd target frame, and we don't even put plywood on it.

 

[Kearnsie14]

When they built the target backstop berms at our range, they put a backstop at 400 yds, then they stretched one more berm as far as the topography would allow which was 430 yards. Since then people no longer use the 400 yd target frame, and we don't even put plywood on it.

I have the same issue but less land here to work with. Our local range is limited to 200 yards but for whatever reason they actually have the barricades at 210. So I practice at 210. I wish we had more land here to work with. It's psychologically awkward to be limited to practicing at 210 and then go hunting where you need to be able to shoot to 300 without having the means to practice at that range.

 

[Don Fischer]

I have the same issue but less land here to work with. Our local range is limited to 200 yards but for whatever reason they actually have the barricades at 210. So I practice at 210. I wish we had more land here to work with. It's psychologically awkward to be limited to practicing at 210 and then go hunting where you need to be able to shoot to 300 without having the means to practice at that range.

Shooting to 300 with a 210yd range wouldn't be all that hard. Figure out MPBR, Max Point Blank Range, at an 8" target. From there my chronograph will figure out the flight path for me and I shoot at the different ranges just to check. All my sighting in is at 100yds because I shoot better from there. Then get the rifle sighted in at MPBR and practice at those ranges. With everything I have 4" low come's out around 275yds or so. Most I have to hold over at 300 yds is about 9" but then I've only shot at big game that far one time in my life. Generally when I see an animal it pretty much point and shoot! Looks to far, I move. Of course shooting at ground squirrels is different. But a little off there is a miss, not a wound!

 

[Roughwater]

Well..........the moment came......and thank you to all who have tried to help/direct me. I just purchased a new Weatherby Vanguard S2 stainless 270 win 24" barrel. Wish me luck! (paid $405 bidding on GB). Maybe it's time to sell my mint JM GS 45-70 from 2004.

Good luck. Sounds like you got a good deal. It's good to have a stainless model. A couple years ago I backpacked in a couple miles in Utah. I had a small tent that liked to collect moisture and the second day camping it rained part of one day and all night. My blued rifle was showing signs of rust so after that I started leaning more toward using a rifle while packing in that has better rust protection built in. If you use your rifle for Elk just make sure you use good ammo. I was told by a Wyoming friend who has taken a number of Elk, to take out the Shoulder. You do that and they are highly unlikely to get back up. Generally the better rounds for pulling that off are the copper bullets like Barnes or Hammer.