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Help with gun decision for my son

MNElkNut

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I won a gun at my local Pheasants Forever banquet and am going to trade it in for a rifle that when my 10 year old son gets older it will be his rifle. He will be an average sized adult, probably stockier than most. I would like this to be the best overall rifle I can get for that $1,000 or under price tag for the antelope to elk range. I have been doing some research and that has confused me a little and am looking for a little clarity/opinions from some here that have a wealth of gun experience. I am not a reloader and I would like a mainstream caliber with lots of bullet options. I put together this chart to compare calibers as closely as possible. I only picked that particular bullet as it was common to almost all the calibers (except the 7-08 which was 10 grains lighter) as I wanted an apples to apples comparison. I know that if you put it in the right spot, it wont matter which one, but I can pick any caliber I want, so why not get the best I can?

Grain Bullet Muzzle V 500 Vel Mz Energy 300 Energy 500 Energy Felt Recoil
7mm08 140 Power Max Bonded 2800 1793 2437 1457 999 12.6
270 150 Power Max Bonded 2850 1784 2705 1577 1060 17
308 150 Power Max Bonded 2820 1594 2648 1378 846 15.8
3006 150 Power Max Bonded 2920 1664 2839 1492 922 17.6
7mm Mag 150 Power Max Bonded 3090 1981 3180 1904 1307 19.2

First question, are there any other calibers that I should consider?

I was really surprised that the 270 outperforms the 308 on paper. I have heard plenty of people talk about how a 270 might be a little light for elk, but have never heard that with regards to the 308, but the numbers favor the 270. What am I missing?

The 7mm-08 vs 308 really surprised me on how close they were (yes, there is a 10 grain difference). I personally own a 7-08, but have only shot an antelope with it (it tipped over dead!).

So there are ballistics on paper and there are real world experiences and other factors. What other factors should I consider? On paper, it sure seems like the 270 is hard to beat, which surprised me as I would not have guessed that going into this analysis.

Okay, that is the caliber part. How about he manufacturer? I have an XBolt and I like it. I have a Ruger American and like the ugly thing but he likes wood so that leaves the American out. I don't know much about Howa (except Randy likes the them), do they have a 3 way safety or bolt release? I will not consider a rifle that doesn't have a 3 way safety or bolt release button (so goodbye Tikka!). I prefer to avoid Remington.

Any thoughts you might have would sure be appreciated. I am using this as a learning moment for my son and am teaching him about ballistics and the importance of doing your homework prior to making a big purchase decision. Thanks!
 
Doggone it, the formatting on my chart didn't work! I apologize folks for that lumped together thing. The column headings are (in order): Muzzle velocity, 500 yard Velocity, Muzzle Energy, 300 yard Energy, 500 Yard energy, and Felt Recoil.
 
I really love my X-bolt in 300 wsm. Ballistically nearly equivalent to the 300 win mag but with less felt recoil and a shorter action/bolt throw. I have the stainless stalker and really like the feel of the stock and the overall weight. Recoil comes in at 22.5 for a 150 grain load, which can be a bit much, but I swear it feel less than the 7mm I had before it.

6.5 Creedmoor is getting a lot of attention these days, but I have not personally used one so I will leave that conversation up to someone else.
 
I have no preference for gun manufacturers. My nickle opinion on the calibers is 30-06 or 270. Because you do not reload, you should be able to find factory ammo in just about any bullet weight for those two calibers just about anywhere. I don't vote for the 308 only because performance starts to suffer when you go above 150 gr.
 
270 is a great caliber I live in Colorado around a lot of Elk hunters and I know several people who shoot them. I myself shoot a 2506 and have killed elk at 800 yds with no problems using 117 gr bullet. The first guns I thought my kids would 243‘s and they knocked down elk and deer with it But we hunted on private property then it never shot over a few hundred yards.
 
I shoot 30-06 Use 165 gr. for elk,and 150 gr. for deer/antelope.(Bolt action.)Have a semi-auto,nothing but a headache.
 
I think it would be hard to go wrong with any of the calibers on your list. IMHO the 2 best on the list would be the .270 and the 30-06 because of the flexibility in being able to buy lighter loads when he is still younger and then move up as he grows. I also like the fact that you can find ammo for those anywhere in the world.
Even though I love my 7RM for everything using 150 grain bullets for deer and antelope and 175 for elk, the recoil might be a little too harsh for a younger kid.
 
I was really surprised that the 270 outperforms the 308 on paper. I have heard plenty of people talk about how a 270 might be a little light for elk, but have never heard that with regards to the 308, but the numbers favor the 270. What am I missing?

From what I read, .270 is a common choice for elk. But, if someone were to say .308 is better I would guess they would base it on sectional density and the ability to shoot higher weight bullets.
 
Topping my list, in no particular order, would be .243, 260, and 7-08 twisted right and shooting good bullets.
 
I won a gun at my local Pheasants Forever banquet and am going to trade it in for a rifle that when my 10 year old son gets older it will be his rifle. He will be an average sized adult, probably stockier than most. I would like this to be the best overall rifle I can get for that $1,000 or under price tag for the antelope to elk range. I have been doing some research and that has confused me a little and am looking for a little clarity/opinions from some here that have a wealth of gun experience. I am not a reloader and I would like a mainstream caliber with lots of bullet options. I put together this chart to compare calibers as closely as possible. I only picked that particular bullet as it was common to almost all the calibers (except the 7-08 which was 10 grains lighter) as I wanted an apples to apples comparison. I know that if you put it in the right spot, it wont matter which one, but I can pick any caliber I want, so why not get the best I can?

Grain Bullet Muzzle V 500 Vel Mz Energy 300 Energy 500 Energy Felt Recoil
7mm08 140 Power Max Bonded 2800 1793 2437 1457 999 12.6
270 150 Power Max Bonded 2850 1784 2705 1577 1060 17
308 150 Power Max Bonded 2820 1594 2648 1378 846 15.8
3006 150 Power Max Bonded 2920 1664 2839 1492 922 17.6
7mm Mag 150 Power Max Bonded 3090 1981 3180 1904 1307 19.2

First question, are there any other calibers that I should consider?

I was really surprised that the 270 outperforms the 308 on paper. I have heard plenty of people talk about how a 270 might be a little light for elk, but have never heard that with regards to the 308, but the numbers favor the 270. What am I missing?

The 7mm-08 vs 308 really surprised me on how close they were (yes, there is a 10 grain difference). I personally own a 7-08, but have only shot an antelope with it (it tipped over dead!).

So there are ballistics on paper and there are real world experiences and other factors. What other factors should I consider? On paper, it sure seems like the 270 is hard to beat, which surprised me as I would not have guessed that going into this analysis.

Okay, that is the caliber part. How about he manufacturer? I have an XBolt and I like it. I have a Ruger American and like the ugly thing but he likes wood so that leaves the American out. I don't know much about Howa (except Randy likes the them), do they have a 3 way safety or bolt release? I will not consider a rifle that doesn't have a 3 way safety or bolt release button (so goodbye Tikka!). I prefer to avoid Remington.

Any thoughts you might have would sure be appreciated. I am using this as a learning moment for my son and am teaching him about ballistics and the importance of doing your homework prior to making a big purchase decision. Thanks!

A friend of mine just had a similar situation. For the money he got a bergara in 308. 6.5 would be fine too of course I imagine. He chose the b14 hmr because the adjustable cheek rest could grow with him and the gun is a quality but durable firearm that guarantees less than moa. He also liked the all the short action caliber options
 
Nothing wrong with any of the caliber choices there. I'd lean toward the 270win or 7-08 in a m70 if the 3 position saftey and wood are needed.
 
I bought a 7mm mag as a teen because it was the latest greatest thing. It worked but I never enjoyed shooting it due to the recoil. I would choose one of the other calibers for a young shooter.
 
Talking about a kids first rifle and down the road a ways? Why are you worried about anything at 500yds? You should also consider the 260/6.5 CM and 6.5x55. Your a handloader, if the kid can handle a 7mm mag, he can handle a 280 Rem! First rifle, I would not consider anything on a larger case than the 308 and nothing larger in cal than .284.
 
Since you mentioned elk (compared with deer) and a kid, I'd go with 7mm-08 and not look back
 
Not sure how much this will help but I bought my son a 30-06 when he was 12. Light loads only the first year he shot targets. 150 grain standard for hunting. He shot a large pig when he was 12, he didn't kill a deer until he was 13. He loves that 30-06 and still shoots it now and he is 40. However he bought his son a 7mm-08 Tikka. Go figure.
I would vote 7mm-08 and let him buy something larger if he ever wants to.
 
If we are talking about a young guys rifle, then a magnum of any caliber is not a good idea.
The .308 does Trump the .270 because you won't be able to run anything heavier than a 150gr bullet in the .270 and the .308 handles 180gr fine .
The recoil from .270 or .308 is usually the upper end of what a 10-15 year old can be happy shooting in my experience.
I strongly feel the 7mm-08, 260 REM ,and 6.5 creedmore are the way to go. The kids love shooting them and they perform good enough to use up into adulthood.
Short action guns are available in many light weight rifles too.
I love the versatile 30-06, but it's a bit much for a youth.

Unless your boy is six foot and 170+ lb. , it's likely the middle weight calibers are the way to go.
Any rifle that shoots 140gr bullets well is gonna handle most all game at 400yrds or less, and that's probably all that most would ever need for deer to elk.
 
Not a hand loader. 500 yard only used for caliber comparison. It will be his rifle for kid through adulthood I hope. Great comments thank you!
 
If he likes wood stocks, I would look at the Bergara in one of their wood stock models. It is a great gun for the money and will leave you enough money to add a nice scope and still be around the $1000 mark. As far as caliber, I started out with a .270 Win. and used it for close to 30 years on deer, elk and antelope. I am now shooting a .308, but would not feel under gunned with the 7-08 for elk. Have your son shoulder a few of the different models and find what feels good to him. Good luck with your search and let us know what you finally settled on.
 
IMO, you can’t go wrong with any of the calibers you mentioned. That being said I would lean towards the 7mm-08, since this will be his first rifle, it would keep the recoil down and make it much more pleasant for him to practice and become confident in his shooting ability.
 

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