MT Shoulder Season Public Comment

[Deleted member 20812]

Changing the subject briefly, but related to how confusing FWP regs are,,,

This is from an FWP news release:

"“Starting Feb. 1, the new fee structure will standardize the definition of youth as those between 12 and 17 years old. This language replaces a number of age categories.”

So reading this one would think a youth hunter is now defined as a 12-17 year old, changing from a 12-15 year old, right?


Wrong, the new definition is for fee structure only. 12-17 get to buy the cheaper youth license but only the 12-15 year olds get to hunt in the special youth hunts. 16-17 year olds while holding the exact same license don't get to go. Add in the 10-15 year olds that are not youth but "licensed apprentice hunters" holding a "youth license" that can hunt in the special youth seasons.

Clear as mud.

Good grief Charlie Brown. In the day of declining hunter numbers, why any agency thinks it's a good idea to limit options for a 16 year old hunter is beyond me.

 

[Nameless Range]

Despite overwhelming public comment in opposition, Shoulder Seasons start today.

Highs in the 90's and elk calves still on the tit. Welcome to Montana.

 

[Straight Arrow]

In my opinion, both the hunter apprenticeship and the shoulder seasons programs are ill-conceived and problematic in so many ways.

I still assert that Montana can mitigate tolerance, hoarding, and hunting issues regarding elk without poorly structured shoulder slaughter seasons ... and the state of Montana can sustain greater numbers of elk ... not thousands fewer!

 

[----]

I had one of the best summer evenings of my life last night. We found many herds of elk on their summer range, enjoying high elevation hayfields. Calves were nursing and spotted, bulls just now rubbing velvet.

 

[BuzzH]

Despite overwhelming public comment in opposition, Shoulder Seasons start today.

Highs in the 90's and elk calves still on the tit. Welcome to Montana.

Why I wake up everyday happy to be living in Wyoming, and why I no longer buy elk tags in Montana.

 

[katqanna]

I went to Helena for this last Commission meeting, but came in after the Commissioners reports. Someone gave me a heads up to a disturbing shoulder season discussion that Gary Wolfe brought up, stating some sportsmen alerted him to ads in the Missoulian by a landowner offering access or trespass fee for shoulder season hunt. I listened to the audio and transcribed it. Now I am going to have to go to the library, spend some time with the Missoulian newspaper to see the ads mentioned, like i have any frickin time.

I am strongly supportive of private landowners. I recognize and support their right to charge access fees, to lease their land to outfitters if they choose to do so. But, when it comes to shoulder seasons, I have a totally different opinion. Shoulder Seasons were put in place to deal with specific problems that landowners had called to our attention and when we start charging access during shoulder seasons, I think that totally violates the spirit and the intent of our shoulder seasons, and so I would like to know, from a commission perspective, do we have any recourse? So that's a discussion I think we need to have, especially in terms, I suspect there's nothing we can do this year, but if certain landowners choose to charge trespass during a shoulder season, especially an early shoulder season, maybe we should consider not allowing him to participate in future shoulder seasons. But then it's something that was called to my attention by several sportsmen and hopefully, it is going to be a very isolated issue. But, I would hate to see that grow, because to me, I say, it totally violates the spirit and intent of shoulder seasons.

When Commissioner Stucker began his report, he began by also opposing what Wolfe brought up and so did Vermillion, who followed, adding that shoulder seasons is not supposed to be a commercial economic opportunity.

 

[----]

I went to Helena for this last Commission meeting, but came in after the Commissioners reports. Someone gave me a heads up to a disturbing shoulder season discussion that Gary Wolfe brought up, stating some sportsmen alerted him to ads in the Missoulian by a landowner offering access or trespass fee for shoulder season hunt. I listened to the audio and transcribed it. Now I am going to have to go to the library, spend some time with the Missoulian newspaper to see the ads mentioned, like i have any frickin time.



When Commissioner Stucker began his report, he began by also opposing what Wolfe brought up and so did Vermillion, who followed, adding that shoulder seasons is not supposed to be a commercial economic opportunity.

There is just no possible way that they are surprised by this and didn't see it coming. If they truly are, than it's no wonder we find ourselves in situations like this.

I know one rancher in the newly formed 217 has been advertising a barbecue/elk massacre. I hope they weren't too hungover this morning to lean against a haybail and get 'their' elk.

 

[RobG]

If anyone sees something implying paying for access try to get proof and contact the commission http://fwp.mt.gov/doingBusiness/contactUs/. We have to make a lot of noise and make sure commercialization doesn't happen.

As much as an early hunt seems so wrong, the elk that are causing problems in August/September are the ones that should go since they aren't doing anyone any good. Hopefully they will learn to hang out elsewhere. It is the migratory elk that come from public land after the snows fly that we should be careful with.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The commercial potential for exploiting shoulder seasons was brought up early and often. It is appalling to even think that the Commission did not acknowledge the realization that it would happen. It reflects very poorly on the Commission and FWP, as well as the Governor's office. I'm always sad to say, "Told ya so, but you wouldn't listen!"

 

[BuzzH]

Agree with the rest, if the Commission, Governors Office, and FWP didn't know this would happen, they are all delinquent in their duties and have complete chit for brains.

In a shock to absolutely nobody, shoulder seasons are already a disaster...who would have guessed?

 

[BuzzH]

If anyone sees something implying paying for access try to get proof and contact the commission http://fwp.mt.gov/doingBusiness/contactUs/. We have to make a lot of noise and make sure commercialization doesn't happen.

As much as an early hunt seems so wrong, the elk that are causing problems in August/September are the ones that should go since they aren't doing anyone any good. Hopefully they will learn to hang out elsewhere. It is the migratory elk that come from public land after the snows fly that we should be careful with.

Great, contact them, the same bunch that were, apparently, blissfully unaware of what they were about to cause???

There isn't any legal recourse for a rancher charging a trespass fee for anything they want. The FWP and the Commission aren't going to touch a rancher charging for access with a ten foot pole...never have, and never will.

If ranchers complain about elk, kill them all from the air with government hunters, bulls first, then the cows and calves. I mean, they aren't doing us any good anyway. No reason to mess around, lets just get this done the quickest, most effective way possible.

Once this issue of those elk that aren't doing us any good are dealt with, then Sportsmen and Landowners can be friends again.

 

[HSi-ESi]

I had heard third hand that there were some ads being run. I did search and haven't found anything yet.

I was not surprised in the least that the shoulder season would be commercialized - intent of the commision or not.

 

[RobG]

.....

 

[mtmuley]

Was in our local SGS just now and overheard a group of guys that were getting ammo and other gear to head out on a hunt. I don't get it. mtmuley

 

[onpoint]

Was in our local SGS just now and overheard a group of guys that were getting ammo and other gear to head out on a hunt. I don't get it. mtmuley

"Hunting" has already taken place.
Local game processors have carcasses hanging.
For a few of us, this is a particularly dark and sad day.
Signing off.....................

 

[Eric Albus]

There were ranchers charging access for the shoulder season? I need to see proof before I believe it.... Personally I would love to have a season like this, and there would be no charge for access... I would consider offering a fill up of the gas tank to every successful elk hunter.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Oh yeah, well EHD to you!

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

I was going to go up to 412 today, but the practicality of getting an elk out in this weather made me rethink that. Will two more weeks of nursing make that much difference to a calf? My intention is to take a yearling cow. I don't know that much about elk, but I would suspect that not all of last years cow calves got bred. As a teacher, opportunities in September for bow season are limited, and likewise during the rifle season.

As for the trespass fees, what did they expect? As for the ranchers that charge thousands of dollars for an opportunity at a good bull, and then collect damages because of the elk, I say pick one, but you can't have both. Obviously I am not a rancher, and maybe it is fair the way it stands, but it does look like double dipping from my point of view.

 

[Eric Albus]

still waiting on proof of anyone charging access for the shoulder season..... come on folks... cry wolf and you'd best find me one.

anyone who would charge for access on a shoulder season is out of line...way out

 

[Drake4]

still waiting on proof of anyone charging access for the shoulder season..... come on folks... cry wolf and you'd best find me one.

anyone who would charge for access on a shoulder season is out of line...way out

Several ranchers on the east side of the Crazies are charging for shoulder season access.