Sorry. If kids don't draw I don't care. They have time. The up front money years ago wasn't a deal breaker because it was refunded. If it held some applicants out, so be it. mtmuley
MT- M/S/G results 26
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cgasner1
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Guys at 26 points probably they had plenty of time also
My points don't mean shit. I have come to that realization. But, I foolishly buy in. mtmuley
406dn
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IMO, not only should there be some up front money, let's say $50. It should also not be refunded. The money raised could be earmarked for that specie's management.
All of these hunts are already a financial stretch for for those on tight budgets. $50 is a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one. I could be talked into, if you draw, a resident is good to go. A non resident would have to come up with, maybe $1000.
It won't happen, but it would winnow out some of the less serious hunters.
All of these hunts are already a financial stretch for for those on tight budgets. $50 is a hurdle, but not an insurmountable one. I could be talked into, if you draw, a resident is good to go. A non resident would have to come up with, maybe $1000.
It won't happen, but it would winnow out some of the less serious hunters.
PoleX
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I’ll try and keep tabs on a couple for youAfter 47 unsuccessful years of applying, It looks like I finally drew a tag for IMO, the hardest of the big 3 critters to hunt, a Bridger Mts Goat.
Montana used to require the application funds up front. I miss those days. I would gladly put up a non refundable fee. mtmuley
406dn
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Yes, I remember the days. But they gave you a refund. My change would do away with the refund. The state keeps the money for managing these three species.
Irishman
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I don't think the money up front thing would make much difference today. The cost of a moose license in 1990 was $50, which is the equivalent of slightly over $125 today so upfronting $125 per license should have about the same effect as the $50 did in 1990.
The number of moose licenses available today is about 60% fewer than in 1990. The population of Montana is about 43% higher today than in 1990 (1.14 million to 799K). So they are giving out on a state per capita basis 30% of the moose licenses that they were in 1990. So based on this alone your odds should be over 3 times worse today, if you reverted to the old system. I would also guess that interest in hunting has increased significantly in the last 36 years - tv shows, then the internet played a big part. Bottom line is that upfronting $125 per species is not going to return things to the good old days, not even close.
IMO this is the same mindset as most of the recent legislation ppl complain about. (Come home to hit, youth season,etc.) Why should the youth get any sorta of advantage? Make it OIL front the fees and no refund on drawing.
cgasner1
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It should be oil. Maybe we change the resident requirement to 20 years also for the big 3 to make sure those kids can’t apply till they are old enough to have a beer in camp
Point Creep
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It’s very cool to see kids strike gold on permit apps but they don’t need any more preference other than maybe a reduced license price. The bonus point squared option we have is good - everyone can still draw and has a (bad) chance but those in for decades have better odds. Full up front fees and higher non-refundable app fees would do everybody better.
Zero and I mean ZERO would be good about transferring points. People should take those to the grave and lose them if you don’t apply every year. My opinion..
Zero and I mean ZERO would be good about transferring points. People should take those to the grave and lose them if you don’t apply every year. My opinion..
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They should wait til they are 12 like most the rest of us had to.
cgasner1
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I’d actually argue that our bonus system with the square is about the best way to draw tags. It really surprises me it’s set up the way it is
Irishman
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I agree that it is the best system. It rewards the people who live in Montana for many years and keep applying. The fact that it's squared definitely helps the odds for those with the most points. It would help my odds by doing many things like making the upfront cost higher, making it that you can only draw once in your life, increasing the age you can apply to 16, 17,18?, but those are all just selfish ideas, not good ideas. I have a great selfish idea, when you turn age 65 and you have at least 20 bonus points, they just give you a license, so you get to hunt each species before you are too old.
BuzzH
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I think some posting on this thread need to sharpen their pencils...squared bonus point systems do not increase your odds when there's crap loads of people entering the drawing year after year.
Point Creep
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I’m pretty sure they do - but not by much.
Bluffgruff
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Squared bonus points are almost the same as not squared bonus points for top point holders, and worse for lower point holders. Once in a lifetime does not improve draw odds for anyone, just has good optics. Best thing we can all do is understand that we need to do more for habitat and disease so that game populations are thriving, and avoid the argument that any one individual deserves the opportunity just because they've been in the game longer, been a resident longer, want it more. I would love to introduce a conservation sweat equity component to tag draws for all male animal tags. Starts at 10 hours for a mule deer buck, goes up to 100 for a bison bull.I agree that it is the best system. It rewards the people who live in Montana for many years and keep applying. The fact that it's squared definitely helps the odds for those with the most points. It would help my odds by doing many things like making the upfront cost higher, making it that you can only draw once in your life, increasing the age you can apply to 16, 17,18?, but those are all just selfish ideas, not good ideas. I have a great selfish idea, when you turn age 65 and you have at least 20 bonus points, they just give you a license, so you get to hunt each species before you are too old.
BuzzH
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Nope...math doesn’t work if more and more people enter the draw behind you each year.
Your individual odds are better against any one single point holder, but not necessarily the collective of all the people that have entered the draw behind you for the past 25 years.
cgasner1
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You are right that 1 person will draw the tag out of the pool so technically the odds are 1 out of x but idk how how don’t see that squared up points don’t help a individual that has invested time into the drawing
seeth07
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You are missing the point that Buzz is making. Your odds go down regardless because of the influx of people entering the draw. It doesnt matter if it is regular bonus, squared or cubed - your odds of drawing go down every year if the amount of people that enter the draw are greater
