MT ELK, Changing it up?

[Big Fin]

Wish I could be in Helena today. I'm in MN. I did not sign up for online comment, as I think the short time they will give for public comment is better reserved for those who haven't been heard. I did give my employees PTO for traveling to Helena or commenting online, though I expect the lines to be long.

After watching the working session last night, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds today. Still a lot of issues in this proposal that need vetted. And reading what many have sent to the Commission and the Department there are a lot of good ideas for them to consider without feeling forced to accept any of this proposal.

To quote a now deceased person who often advised me on policy issues, "Beware of old men in a hurry."

 

[Farmerj]

A season on either side of the general season when we get to hunt inaccessible private lands for cow elk so that the Galts of the world can outfit during the rest of the season and bitch about too many elk…

Say that again so someone not familiar with the local politics understand …

 

[Carnage2011]

Say that again so someone not familiar with the local politics understand …


View attachment 205421

It’s basically a season to shoot cow elk before or after the general season on private land.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, if I read this right FWP and the commission can change season dates to what ever suits them-correct?

Alternatives and Analysis: Season dates may be adopted as proposed, with adjustments, with additions, with deletions, or no change from 2021 (status quo). Because of warmer weather trends, there has been some advocacy to shift the five-week general elk and deer seasons at least one week later. That is shown on the Alternative season dates list, and would result in a two-week “dead week” between the archery-only and general deer/elk seasons, with the exception of the youth hunt days, which are tied to the MEA days. Heritage muzzleloader season would also be shifted a week later because it is tied statutorily to the end of the general big game season. The shift in the general season will result in overlap with the beginning of the mountain lion hound season, which currently starts on Dec. 1, after the end of the general big game season. There has also been a public request that the commission consider a later end date to pheasant season to Jan. 31 (currently ends on Jan. 1).

I just saw this.

Yes. The commission has great latitude in season setting for most seasons. Only those set in statute don't have as much wiggle room.

 

[golfer]

I just saw this.

Yes. The commission has great latitude in season setting for most seasons. Only those set in statute don't have as much wiggle room.

So did they leave the deer and elk season as is? Those guys made season dates clear as mud discussing it.

 

[Gerald Martin]

So did they leave the deer and elk season as is? Those guys made season dates clear as mud discussing it.

I have no clue. There was so much confusion during that discussion. When I got up to testify I asked for clarification if I understood that a motion had been made to keep the status quo and not adopt the proposals for alternate dates or later closing for bear and upland game birds.

They affirmed that was the proposal. I testified in favor of keeping the current season structure.

Then Commissioner Walsh was asked to repeat his amendment and it was totally different than what I testified about.

 

[Schaaf]

So did they leave the deer and elk season as is? Those guys made season dates clear as mud discussing it.

Yes. Extended the Pheasant season until January 31.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yes. Extended the Pheasant season until January 31.

Did they do that in the upland bird portion of the agenda? I wasn’t clear on the outcome of the general season dates.

 

[tjones]

Also out for public comment is removal of mandatory check on black bears.

With WA just losing its spring bear season, I don't see how having data gained from mandatory check could hurt should Montana get put in a similar situation.


"loosing" for the old time HT'ers

 

[TheTone]

Also out for public comment is removal of mandatory check on black bears.

With WA just losing its spring bear season, I don't see how having data gained from mandatory check could hurt should Montana get put in a similar situation.

Does MT do any black bear population monitoring? I’d bet mandatory check is the best bear data they have

 

[4ohSick]

Also out for public comment is removal of mandatory check on black bears.

With WA just losing its spring bear season, I don't see how having data gained from mandatory check could hurt should Montana get put in a similar situation.

Where are you seeing that? I'm only seeing Spring Light Goose and Grizzly Relocation on their Public Comment Opportunities page...

 

[tjones]

Where are you seeing that? I'm only seeing Spring Light Goose and Grizzly Relocation on their Public Comment Opportunities page...

From the meeting yesterday, probably not up yet.

 

[tjones]

Does MT do any black bear population monitoring? I’d bet mandatory check is the best bear data they have

From the testimony yesterday it seems to be one hell of an inconvenience for outfitters and non resident hunters.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Also out for public comment is removal of mandatory check on black bears.

With WA just losing its spring bear season, I don't see how having data gained from mandatory check could hurt should Montana get put in a similar situation.

How do you enforce quotas without a mandatory check?

 

[rogerthat]

Also out for public comment is removal of mandatory check on black bears.

With WA just losing its spring bear season, I don't see how having data gained from mandatory check could hurt should Montana get put in a similar situation.

Way to high level thinking! This is about increasing opportunity and making it as easy as possible to kill as much crap as possible. Data is not welcome in MT game management!!!!

 

[Irrelevant]

Also out for public comment is removal of mandatory check on black bears.

With WA just losing its spring bear season, I don't see how having data gained from mandatory check could hurt should Montana get put in a similar situation.

100%. One of the reason's it was killed was the lack of conclusive evidence (per the commission, not me) that it's being conducted in a sustainable way. In our case, mandatory harvest reporting and tooth collection wasn't deemed sufficient, they also wanted to see population scale surveys and monitoring.

 

[TheTone]

From the testimony yesterday it seems to be one hell of an inconvenience for outfitters and non resident hunters.

What a burden…

 

[Schaaf]

Did they do that in the upland bird portion of the agenda? I wasn’t clear on the outcome of the general season dates.

I thought it was settled in the general season portion???

“We have to pass the bill to know what’s in it.” Nancy Pelosi and Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission

 

[Gerald Martin]

I thought it was settled in the general season portion???

“We have to pass the bill to know what’s in it.” Nancy Pelosi and Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission

Apparently we are as confused as the Director and the Commission.

At least we’ll be doing something different because clearly what’s been done before isn’t working…

At what point do we get to introduce the phrase “Out of the frying pan and into the fire.”? That’s a great cliche. It really needs to be included in this conversation.

 

[Gerald Martin]

If you are going to “start the conversation” it’s really important to be quotable.

We learned that in @wllm1313 ’s thread about punctuation.