Montana - Time to Shake it Up?

[Visiting Hunter]

I think the issue with this is going to be that hunters are more mobile than in the past. If we cut the season in 6, hunters that can not find the buck they are looking in the first few weeks will move to 7 when the season in 6 is over. This will over value the effect of a shorter season in 6 and make the long season in 7 look even worse.

I don't disagree, maybe region 4? But really the only way to see what method would be more viable is running it side by side I would think... Or region 1 across the state but it faces other issues in my opinion.

 

[antlerradar]

I don't disagree, maybe region 4? But really the only way to see what method would be more viable is running it side by side I would think... Or region 1 across the state but it faces other issues in my opinion.

We could just compare MT to WY, Saskatchewan or ND for eastern MT and ID and WY for western MT.

 

[DFS]

We could just compare MT to WY, Saskatchewan or ND.

27k nonresident tags in Montana. How many nonresidents does ND allow during their rut hunt?

 

[DFS]

@8andcounting? @BlakeA @brocksw?

 

[Visiting Hunter]

We could just compare MT to WY, Saskatchewan or ND for eastern MT and ID and WY for western MT.

I suppose, I would I'd atleast listen if they had the reasearch to prove it was working.

 

[brockel]

I also agree I haven't seen many collard deer or elk really in montana... I have seen 1 of each so I think alot more GPS data and fawn data could really improve how we the public see... it's hard to argue facts... fwp leaves to much speculation to the general public... counts work but if you had the data of even what 2000 deer are doing every hour, its gonna be able to help biologists I would think. Maybe thats too much work for our department, or not willing too look into new ideas... They mention in the podcast those costs are going down on collars.. so between R and NR if we all could buck up 10 15 more bucks a tag to get the needed collars and vaginal transmitters... I'm 100% game for more money being used to evaluate speices on our landscape and try new managment strategies.. we dont know what we dont know, untill we know it....

And if they needed volunteers like Utah uses, I also think that could help bridge between fwp and hunters. Possibly be less of a gap. If more people were seeing management evolving. Just a thought... but it couldn't really hurt, I wouldn't think? Maybe piggy back of someone else's research and try both ways... but I think It would be a interesting experiment they could put head to head at the same time.

When the mule deer foundation was going down here the local chapter wanted to donate money to purchase a couple collars for fwp to monitor mule deer. Fwp declined saying the way they monitor mule deer works fine already.

 

[8andcounting]

27k nonresident tags in Montana. How many nonresidents does ND allow during their rut hunt?

Apples to oranges

 

[8andcounting]

Residents get to hunt mule deer with a gun about every 5 years .

 

[brocksw]

27k nonresident tags in Montana. How many nonresidents does ND allow during their rut hunt?

1% of resident rifle mule deer buck tags get allocated to NR rifle mule deer buck tags.

15% of previous years resident rifle mule deer buck tags get allocated to NR any deer archery tags. Just over 80% of which hunt mule deer in the badlands with that tag. This is a statewide tag just like the resident archery tag.

Depending on the unit, residents can draw a mule deer rifle buck tag in 3-4 years in some units, and in others it takes 7-9 years.

Resident archery tags are OTC and can be obtained every year. 2023 represents the first year in ND history where archery hunters (R and NR) took more mule deer than rifle hunters in a couple badlands units.

 

[Visiting Hunter]

When the mule deer foundation was going down here the local chapter wanted to donate money to purchase a couple collars for fwp to monitor mule deer. Fwp declined saying the way they monitor mule deer works fine already.

I guess I would need to see that statement, I don't see how it "works fine." With technology being far better then it was.. just like anything it should evolve into working smarter not harder.

Costs are down on collars and GPS in general. Throw a airtag on them for all I care. technology is far better. I don't really know how anyone can argue against if your wanting to fix the population problem. more GPS data and more fawn data... these guys are going and collaring new fawns shortly after they drop... so I don't know how many years ago that statement was said. But I personally don't see how that argument would tread any water. More information about the species is going to result in making a better decision on what they need. When they need it, and why. We can't control the weather, but everything else is controllable. And the results they are showing some small changes make some pretty significant differences for them all in stuff they can manage.

 

[brockel]

I guess I would need to see that statement, I don't see how it "works fine." With technology being far better then it was.. just like anything it should evolve into working smarter not harder.

Costs are down on collars and GPS in general. Throw a airtag on them for all I care. technology is far better. I don't really know how anyone can argue against if your wanting to fix the population problem. more GPS data and more fawn data... these guys are going and collaring new fawns shortly after they drop... so I don't know how many years ago that statement was said. But I personally don't see how that argument would tread any water. More information about the species is going to result in making a better decision on what they need. When they need it, and why. We can't control the weather, but everything else is controllable. And the results they are showing some small changes make some pretty significant differences for them all in stuff they can manage.

This would have been 7-8 years ago. Local biologists was all for it. Regional office shut it down.

I agree more information is better for management. But when the people making the decisions on the management do nearly the same thing year after year what does more information get them? I mean counts are down 50% from long term trends yet it took the commission to shut down doe tags on public land a move that pissed fwp off

 

[cgasner1]

I got a email from kuiu the other day wanting people to help throw in on collaring some sheep in Nevada it made it look like a collar is 2500 bucks

 

[Visiting Hunter]

This would have been 7-8 years ago. Local biologists was all for it. Regional office shut it down.

I agree more information is better for management. But when the people making the decisions on the management do nearly the same thing year after year what does more information get them? I mean counts are down 50% from long term trends yet it took the commission to shut down doe tags on public land a move that pissed fwp off

Maybe us as the public need to keep bringing it up in future meetings.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

We would have to push them hard for it and for the funding.

I got a email from kuiu the other day wanting people to help throw in on collaring some sheep in Nevada it made it look like a collar is 2500 bucks

I think it's fairly variable from what you want the collars to do or how long you need them to last... maybe a biologist or the helicopter capturer @theat has those costs what collars are. I googled some and most didn't have the costs posted..

 

[cgasner1]

They got 18 collars I thought it was kinda neat way to get it done. As sportsman I think for the most part we don’t care where the money comes from if it’s gonna actually help. Some of these agencies probably don’t wanna admit they need the help.

 

[Ought Six]

I found this discussion interesting...

Montana needs to start with human predation before we try to fix anything else, it would be the easiest to experiment with. Funny I met a couple less informed brothers this week, overweight stereotypical road hunters, who were absolutely appalled that MT was not allowing doe harvest on public lands. Their exact words “that ain’t even conservation, that goes completely against conservation”. I just bit my tongue, weren’t going to change their minds. They mentioned that the at the banquet regional director of MDF had told them that there was a group of hunters pushing for no doe tags but multiple buck tags and were selfishly trying to play the system to trophy hunt multiple bucks. They showed a few pictures and talked about how they were completely content with killing immature bucks every year

 

[brockel]

Maybe us as the public need to keep bringing it up in future meetings.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

We would have to push them hard for it and for the funding.

Curious if you attended any of the mule deer management meetings fwp put on couple years ago

 

[mtmuley]

Maybe us as the public need to keep bringing it up in future meetings.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

We would have to push them hard for it and for the funding.


I think it's fairly variable from what you want the collars to do or how long you need them to last... maybe a biologist or the helicopter capturer @theat has those costs what collars are. I googled some and most didn't have the costs posted..

Been hunting R2 for almost 50 years. I have never seen a collared deer. mtmuley

 

[DFS]

Been hunting R2 for almost 50 years. I have never seen a collared deer. mtmuley

I saw one in region 7 this year. It came from South Dakota.

 

[brockel]

Been hunting R2 for almost 50 years. I have never seen a collared deer. mtmuley

Seen an elk in eastern Montana with one. Land owner shot it and found out it was from North Dakota

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Been hunting R2 for almost 50 years. I have never seen a collared deer. mtmuley

I saw one in the Bitterroot some time back. Ended up being from Idaho.