Montana SUPER TAG... Grrr.

[Sytes]

Pro's and Con's of the Montana Super Tag leave me a bit dissapointed HOWEVER amped, as a method to advance the funds for enforcement increase W/O my state tax dollars footing for what it generates.

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks is once again offering a SuperTag lottery for hunters to take another shot at the dream.

Eight lucky hunters will win a SuperTag license to hunt moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, antelope, elk, deer, bison, and mountain lion in any hunting district in Montana—including Montana’s legendary trophy districts. Revenue from the new SuperTag sales is used to enhance hunting access and boost FWP enforcement efforts

This is available to the resident and non resident hunter with the purchase of a conservation tag.

You must have a current year's conservation license to purchase SuperTag chances. An unlimited number of chances may be purchased at $5 per chance.

This is what sticks my craw a bit...

There is a difference between playing a cash lottery and playing a lottery for hunting ground, Least IMO.

This method of NO restriction on the qty of tags to purchase supports the wealthy over those not holding such cash to dispose of for such opportunities. I believe this slaps directly in the face of hunters in general as it promotes an avantage for some over others - when this SHOULD hold an equal playing field for opportunity to hunt our land.

Hell, if this is acceptable - why the HELL do we have a point system drawings? Heck, lets make this a super draw and leave montana residents to the general tags...

Heh, here is where I hold my pro's... great revenue boost not adversely effecting Montana Tax Payers (Residents) for enforcement of F&G regs...
I think I have shared my con's for such. Wonder if there would be another way to do such - yet promotea balanced opportunity.

???

 

[The Hedgehog]

That's how raffles work. The idea is to generate money. $5 a piece, buy as many chances as you want. What's the problem?

 

[shoots-straight]

At least the working man has a chance at the tag. Granted a millionaire could far and away outspend the working class guy,, but he would have no guarantee at the tag. Governor tags are only for the rich and familiar. I would rather have this type of tag to generate sales.

 

[The Hedgehog]

What would the price point have to be for each supertag, if you could only buy one each, to rake in a cool $400K?

 

[mdhunter]

I always been perplexed when people start throwing around "our land". Are we talking about your personal land? Otherwise lets save the debate...Living here in Maryland I cant imagine telling someone its "my beach".

I share your frustation with the Super Tag lottery. I feel any tag given out this way is an opportunity taken away from someone who has played by the rules and applied as required. All in the name of a buck...

 

[Sytes]

What would the price point have to be for each supertag, if you could only buy one each, to rake in a cool $400K?

Greenhorn, I am not opposed to the intent behind such - as I felt I made obvious in the initial post.

HOWEVER,
When looking at the general drawings and the point system... Why is this method present versus $5.00 for a chance unlimited? For an equal ability... Least that is my opinion...

How about this? Maybe to help... Get RID of this unbalanced method for buying unlimited chances at drawing "super" tags and make the general drawing tags non refundable. Maybe make it for each choice selection (up to 3 as it is currently) are $5.00 each...?

Haha! Then again, if I win one of the the 8 super tags...Well, to those who can not afford to compete on an equal field with the qty of opportunities I purchased... THEY can go pound sand! <evil laugh> Their loss - regardless whether this is their land... I paid more so their land is more MINE! :W: Haha! j/k.

I simply think there may be other ways to raise funds w/o creating an unbalanced method for opportunities.​

 

[Sytes]

I always been perplexed when people start throwing around "our land". Are we talking about your personal land? Otherwise lets save the debate...Living here in Maryland I cant imagine telling someone its "my beach".

I share your frustation with the Super Tag lottery. I feel any tag given out this way is an opportunity taken away from someone who has played by the rules and applied as required. All in the name of a buck...

Wait ONE second mdhunter - I dare stated I slated it as intending you as a NON resident should not have hunting access to United States National Forest... Cheers at the second paragraph

 

[smalls]

Sytes, what do you mean by "non-refundable"? Are you suggesting that NR's should fork over hundreds of dollars whether they get a tag or not?

In a state that could certainly use some tweaking with respect to some game laws and tag allocation I think that the Supertag is the least of our concerns.

 

[Sytes]

Sytes, what do you mean by "non-refundable"? Are you suggesting that NR's should fork over hundreds of dollars whether they get a tag or not?

In a state that could certainly use some tweaking with respect to some game laws and tag allocation I think that the Supertag is the least of our concerns.

No, just as an "off the cuff" thought based on this:

My special drawings this year cost me $47.00 (+,-) Basically Elk B, Deer and Deer B.
Each have 3 ranked choices for locations.
If I am NOT drawn, well, $5.00 for each ranked location choice would be non refundable.
TBH, I did not really consider the higher value paid by Non residents as it was more a simple comment - not one for FWP to enact upon immediately. To consider though... maybe overhaul the initial idea to make a set $5.00 per ranked location as non refundable.

To simplify:
I had 9 ranked choices in my drawings. x $5.00 = 45.00 as non refundable. Goes towards supporting Montana FWP activities.

IF a non resident pays X value... still it would match to $5.00 per ranked location choice.

I certainly agree with you that there are MANY issues confronting FWP... This may rank low on MAJOR concerns over FWP actions... however, IMO, this is still an unreasonable means to gather funds... least IMO

 

[Gerald Martin]

I think the Supertag is one of the least odious ways for a state to generate more income. Its a whole lot better than auction tags. Bear in mind that last year at least Montana residents were the lucky recipients to most if not all the tags. I think one guy only bought one chance and two others only spent $20 for on their chances.

I'd much rather see that than higher drawing fees. The way it is now I always buy a couple of chances , knowing the money is going for a good cause even if I never draw. All that higher fees on drawing tags would do for me would limit the amount of tags I applied for.

Hey, if some rich guy wants to spend $50,000 on Supertag chances I say go for it. I'll have just as much chance per unit of investment as he does to win the tag.

 

[mdhunter]

Sytes...I sometimes get stumped by the written word. You are saying that as a resident only you should have access to "United States National Forest". Am I missing something or is that property owned by the federal government? Perhaps some of my hard earned tax dollars contributed to that (instead of one of those $1,000 hammers)

I like the Super Tag thread though. Might even have to buy one of those longshots

 

[Sytes]

Sytes...I sometimes get stumped by the written word. You are saying that as a resident only you should have access to "United States National Forest". Am I missing something or is that property owned by the federal government? Perhaps some of my hard earned tax dollars contributed to that (instead of one of those $1,000 hammers)

I like the Super Tag thread though. Might even have to buy one of those longshots

I believe what would help is take a step back and evaluate this from this perspective... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is intended as a slight towards Non Resident hunters in Montana. I'll be happy to take another step on this subject... IF, in any way, my chosen words have left doubt as to the intent of this thread - my apologies... This IS NOT my intent. Hope that clears the air...

Our Land = United States National Forest = United States citizens.

The Resident comments generate around methods to raise $ to add further Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks Law Enforcement Officers / programs versus Montana resident Tax dollars and continued higher priced resident tags beyond what it has raised.

****************************

Beyond diverting from the intent of this thread any further, this discussion is on the pro's and con's of Montana Super Tags. Seems most here - if not all feel this is not an issue when compared to other "real" issues out here. Meh, I digress...

I still believe we would have a different perspective here if our general drawings were based on unlimited purchased entries... versus a balanced point system where no one person has an advantage over another.

As stated in the OP - I am both happy and bummed at the Montana Super Tag. The money generated is great! On the other hand the METHOD the money is generated is IMO, something that should be evaluated.

As a basic example: One person from washington bought 20 chances for bighorn... he won his bighorn sheep tag.

A simple 20x's that 1 in 15,000 = 1 in 750. Shall we take this further?

Someone wants to get in on this figures... Hell, I am wealthy - I'll place $2,000...
400 tags purchased gives him a 1 in 37 chance at what others face of 1 in 3,000 chance. (est avg of 5 ttags purchased).

In a nutshell, there are right ways and wrong ways to promote generating money. IMO, this is the wrong way.

 

[thecrittergitter]

If you look back at the history of the Super Tags, you will find that the majority of the people who got the super tags whether they were residents or not, only bought a couple chances.

I agree with smalls, i think the super tag issue is the least of MT's issues. And by the way, just because you are the recipient of a supertag, doesn't mean you are going to kill the new world record..........speaking from experience In fact if its bison, you may not get to even hunt them


Supertags are way better idea than aution tags.............at least we all have a chance at an affordable raffle, most of us could never dream of having the money so spend hundreds of thousands on governor tags.......

 

[mtmiller]

Here are the number of tags sold by species in 2008:

Sheep 22,429
Goat 6,393
Moose 11,222
Elk 15,541
Mule Deer 6,866
Bison 5,018
Antelope 2,335
Mountain Lion 1,515

All but one of the eight winners in 2008 were from Montana:

Species Winner Location Chances purchased
Sheep Shawn Hall Boulder, MT 5
Goat Aaron Franz Sidney, MT 50
Moose Glen Majors Manhattan, MT 2
Elk John Laughery Moses Lake, WA 3
Mule Deer Ryan Wantaja Summers, MT 20
Bison Lori Clyde Bozeman, MT 1
Antelope David Smith Victor, MT 1
Mtn. Lion Matt Enrooth Butte, MT Unknown

 

[The Hedgehog]

I think it's a great idea - there's only 8 tags! If somebody wants to buy 10000 chances, good for them! I'll gamble on 4 or 5.

I think they should triple the prices of resident license fees, and sell the super tags chances for $10 each.

That sounds fair to me.

 

[Drake4]

I'd vote for a pretty substantial increase in resident fees. $82 for the Sports. License is pretty ridiculous.

I like the Super Tag just the way it is. I think it is great. If someone wants to drop a couple grand to increase their odds..have at it.

 

[Sytes]

Haha!

Okay, okay

Seems I have been elected to camp stove fire duty / coffee - breakfast preparations - hell, prob the darn dishes to boot!. I am on the wrong end of this lopsided debate. Haha!

Good stuff guys. TBH - reflecting on the comments made as in any "around the camp fire" conversation / debate" I understand and agree this is a mild issue of low importance. 8 tags total... non big buck $$$ governor tags - I agree is minimal - though hell, if I am doing the darn camp dishes anyway - You all can go pound sand! Haha! I still believe the method is wrong and could be modified to gain good money w/o cracking our integrity to gain it. (no matter how tiny a crack that may be.

/walks off to set the camp stove alarm, prep the morning coffee and breakfast...

I'd vote for a pretty substantial increase in resident fees. $82 for the Sports. License is pretty ridiculous.

Not I... no way in hell. After basic drawing entries, freekin tribal fishing permits (Bullshnit! / cough), conservation tags here and there - archery, turkey, bear... beyond this elusive $82.00. $82.00 sounds just fine with me - no need to compare with other states resident tags... I am proud of Montana for that aspect.

 

[The Hedgehog]

For roughly the same price as two lift tickets at the ski-hill, you can buy licenses for 6 species of big game and take multiples of each, hunting for more than 8 months of the year, and can hunt pratcially every species of feathered friends known to man with long seasons and liberal limits, plus fish everything..

Montana residents are spoiled rotton, whining tight-asses, and until they start paying more for what they got, their voice with the FWP, commission, legislators, outfitters, landowners, etc.. will continue to be a little squeak in the corner.

Thanks for reminding me to buy some supertag tickets.. I'm going to buy 10 sheep, goat, and bison tickets, 2 each of everything else.

 

[shoots-straight]

It cost me $105 to fill up my truck yesterday. I bought my hunting licenses for $125. There's no comparison, Montana tags are a bargain. I would gladly pay more if it goes for more block, and or habitat improvements. The political clout would increase naturally from that.

 

[Sytes]

Montana residents are spoiled rotton, whining tight-asses, and until they start paying more for what they got, their voice with the FWP, commission, legislators, outfitters, landowners, etc.. will continue to be a little squeak in the corner.

Cheers for your opinion...

Thanks for reminding me to buy some supertag tickets.. I'm going to buy 10 sheep, goat, and bison tickets, 2 each of everything else.

I personally purchased 3 deer and elk supertags. Good luck in drawing one... so long as it is not a elk or deer super tag... LOL! Not passing any "good" luck that harms my potential.