Montana Regional Caps and Limited Entry for Mule Deer.

[Forkyfinder]

If this thread is any indication of how things are going to be perceived you guys have a long road ahead of you. Everybody wants what's best for them and only them. Same thing here. Pathetic.

Youre exactly right. Lenghtening the season and starting it earlier hurts several user groups. Traditional landowners. Diy NR/R. Block management enrolees and fwp budget.

It will put elk on private for longer and earlier. And an october rifle season (that excluded them) will push and keep them on private. I can only think of one user group thatd want that - especially since an outfitted elk is worth 3x what a mule deer is.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Trend Analysis of Hunter Days in Montana

Shared via Copilot

copilot.microsoft.com

Heres what unbiased analysis of that data looks like.

What the trend analysis for NR hunters days with that program?

Is there any way to differentiate between ES hunters and antlerless hunters with it? I’m guessing that there was a pretty substantial jump in the amount of NR hunter days that was linked to the amount of antlerless tags available to NR’s

If my hypothesis holds any water there should be a drop in NR hunter days last year compared to the several prior.

 

[Gerald Martin]

R days dont mean crap. A resident hunter can be out supposedly hunting as long as the have there coffee a tag and driving in a hunting unit. Actually pressure out of the truck is more likely with nr who pay 1000 for a deer tag.

No matter what you think the data shows nr hunters have a greater impact on the resources they hunt with a greater sense of urgency they have a week or two to fill the tag where residents have all season go out a day or two hear and there and make that 10 days easy when you can hunt September October November. You should have 20 resident hunter days per hunter really

I completely agree that NR hunters are filling their tags at a higher rate compared to R hunters. FWP’s data backs that up.

 

[DFS]

The funding aspect is a stupid argument. If we don’t have the deer that funding will go away in the long term. It’s a very short sighted argument. It’s not hard to look at the facts, nonresidents are hammering mule deer during the rut in open country in region 7. They have been for 15 years or more. They need to be neutered or sent to private land and outfitters.

There isn’t a single western state that turns all of their nonresidents loose in potentially one region or unit. It’s laughable.

 

[NY_BLUES]

Those states all have:

NR Regional caps or LE

Having LE or regional tags isn't shitting on outfitters. It's how it should be. I'm not advocating for unlimited tags, and any outfitter booking as many clients as they possibly can will hunt out their ground quick.

I said earlier that when I went, the outfitter cut 30 hunters per year between my trips. No one forced them to cut numbers, they did so to improve their chances at decent deer down the road.

If Montana goes to LE, I think most outfits would be OK with it. Buy points, enter the lottery and hunt your tag.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Having LE or regional tags isn't shitting on outfitters. It's how it should be. I'm not advocating for unlimited tags, and any outfitter booking as many clients as they possibly can will hunt out their ground quick.

I said earlier that when I went, the outfitter cut 30 hunters per year between my trips. No one forced them to cut numbers, they did so to improve their chances at decent deer down the road.

If Montana goes to LE, I think most outfits would be OK with it. Buy points, enter the lottery and hunt your tag.

The outfitting community here is adamently against it - despite it obviously being the best choice for the resource.

 

[Archer86]

There isn’t a single western state that turns all of their nonresidents loose in potentially one region or unit. It’s laughable.

Washington does but the hunting is so bad there the residents dont even want to hunt it

 

[NY_BLUES]

The outfitting community here is adamently against it - despite it obviously being the best choice for the resource.

That's not the story I have gotten from a couple buddies who are guides, but then again, that's only a couple, and they are from the same outfit.

As a NR who has hunted with an outfitter, and DIY, I am supportive of LE draws. The population can't support the number of tags they are handing out for much longer. Somewhere there is a cliff, and we are fast approaching it.

 

[Nick87]

Youre exactly right. Lenghtening the season and starting it earlier hurts several user groups. Traditional landowners. Diy NR/R. Block management enrolees and fwp budget.

It will put elk on private for longer and earlier. And an october rifle season (that excluded them) will push and keep them on private. I can only think of one user group thatd want that - especially since an outfitted elk is worth 3x what a mule deer is.

Is your avatar pic an actual childhood photo?

 

[Forkyfinder]

R days dont mean crap. A resident hunter can be out supposedly hunting as long as the have there coffee a tag and driving in a hunting unit. Actually pressure out of the truck is more likely with nr who pay 1000 for a deer tag.

No matter what you think the data shows nr hunters have a greater impact on the resources they hunt with a greater sense of urgency they have a week or two to fill the tag where residents have all season go out a day or two hear and there and make that 10 days easy when you can hunt September October November. You should have 20 resident hunter days per hunter really

My in laws answer they hunt when they drive home on a detour on some dirt roads.

Not all hunter days are the same.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Is your avatar pic an actual childhood photo?

Wyomings a helluva place to grow up

- but i hope you see my point. This proposal affects whats going to happen with elk a lot more than mule deer. The only thing that will keep mule deer from getting blasted is less tags. For everyone.

 

[Archer86]

I completely agree that NR hunters are filling their tags at a higher rate compared to R hunters. FWP’s data backs that up.

So what has a big impact on the quality of the hunt then hunter days or harvest. Kill more animals in a smaller user group sure gives you a better chance to reduce harvest with the smallest tag cuts......I am a nr by the way

 

[antlerradar]

The outfitting community here is adamently against it - despite it obviously being the best choice for the resource.

LE and regional caps is just theoretical until we get some numbers on how hunters will be divided up.

 

[antlerradar]

Is wyoming, colorado, utah, and idaho shitting on outfitters?

WY is generous with the percent, given to NR, and has the wilderness guide rule.
CO has landowner tags and ranching for wildlife.
UT has a very generous amount of auction tags, landowner tags and the CWMV program
ID until recently had OTC NR tags given out first come.
They also all have the bulk of the tags good in Oct. or early Nov.

 

[El Jason]

Hunter days matter when it comes to landowner fatigue and lost access to private land. They also matter to game distribution on public land. But hey, go ahead and disregard them.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Hunter days matter when it comes to landowner fatigue and lost access to private land. They also matter to game distribution on public land. But hey, go ahead and disregard them.

Why dont you whip some more caveman math out and figure out what a longer hunting season will do for that.

 

[El Jason]

Why dont you whip some more caveman math out and figure out what a longer hunting season will do for that.

Show me one time where I advocated for a longer hunting season? I guarantee you can’t do it.

Maybe you should quit making stuff up

 

[Forkyfinder]

Show me one time where I advocated for a longer hunting season? I guarantee you can’t do it.

Maybe you should quit making stuff up

Well the proposal you keep defending does just that?

 

[El Jason]

Well the proposal you keep defending does just that?

I really have no idea what you’re talking about. What proposal did I defend? Show me a direct quote where I supported anything in particular.

Search every post I’ve ever made. Show me one time where I have advocated for lengthening the mule deer season in Montana. Also, show me one time where I have ever advocated for rut hunting, or free rein access across the entire state for either resident or nonresident. I’ll buy you a steak dinner if you can do any of those.

 

[Nick87]

I really have no idea what you’re talking about.

If it makes you feel any better I never have any idea wtf he is talking about.