Montana Regional Caps and Limited Entry for Mule Deer.

[brockel]

@brockel, would whitetail stay under the later season?

If whitetail were part of the later season only then unsuccessful applicants for the LE mule deer hunt could hunt whitetails.

No one gets to hunt both seasons.

No it would be broke out to just general deer October which would be whitetail and mule deer. Limited entry for November would a tag good for both. I think going by species would be touch of a change too fast for most people.

Gives people that want to hunt every year the chance.

 

[brockel]

If tags are limited you are going to have revenue issues.

Maybe. Maybe not. You could potentially have more non residents applying for Montana which would sell more base hunting licenses. You could have the normal bunch that just wants to hunt Montana which would be putting in for October and those that want a chance at a better animal with the use of the rut which would be applying for the November hunt. Would also sell more bonus points

 

[Gerald Martin]

@brockel, your suggested structure is close to parts of what we discussed as optimal structure in our group meetings. We didn’t include the LE portion except as a possibility should the early season structure and reduced doe harvest produce an increase in deer herds and buck counts.

Two things influenced our decision to go to an Oct. 8 start and a Nov 5 end.

MBA has been very adamant they will accept nothing less than a 6 week archery season. Hence Oct. 8 to accommodate 6 weeks.

Hinkle’s HB-139 sought to legislatively block any attempt to end general mule deer before Nov.6.
We figured if he set the threshold at Nov. 6 of an end date as acceptable that would be early enough that we could live with it. No use to trigger another legislative fight next session.

 

[antlerradar]

@brockel, would whitetail stay under the later season?

If whitetail were part of the later season only then unsuccessful applicants for the LE mule deer hunt could hunt whitetails.

No one gets to hunt both seasons.

If I was king, with this idea I would also have late season whitetails LE, even if it was guarantee draw on first choice. Guarantee a person a rut hunt if they choose and reduce the number of applicants in the mule deer draw.
This LE idea is getting closer to 3.0 all the time.

 

[Treeshark]

What about general deer Oct 1-31 and limited entry deer from Nov 1-30? If you apply for the limited entry whether you draw or not you are not eligible to hunt the general season.

Agree with the first part, but I think the second part would be a really tough sell.

For residents, 10/1-10/31 Gen and a very restrictive LE season 11/1-11/30 would be more palatable and still lead to reduced buck harvest.

 

[Gerald Martin]

No it would be broke out to just general deer October which would be whitetail and mule deer. Limited entry for November would a tag good for both. I think going by species would be touch of a change too fast for most people.

Gives people that want to hunt every year the chance.

Would number of tags set for the LE be a combination of buck counts both whitetail and mule deer or how do you envision the number of permits being set?

 

[brockel]

Agree with the first part, but I think the second part would be a really tough sell.

For residents, 10/1-10/31 Gen and a very restrictive LE season 11/1-11/30 would be more palatable and still lead to reduced buck harvest.

Doesn’t address the over crowding though which isn’t just caused by non residents

 

[antlerradar]

Maybe. Maybe not. You could potentially have more non residents applying for Montana which would sell more base hunting licenses. You could have the normal bunch that just wants to hunt Montana which would be putting in for October and those that want a chance at a better animal with the use of the rut which would be applying for the November hunt. Would also sell more bonus points

Going to be tough to make up for lower tag sales with the base license and application fees.

 

[Doublecluck]

LE for everything based on population surveys and we tax people with out of state plates at toll booths on the border to pay the budget shortfall. 10 dollars a car island park to west Yellowstone.

 

[mtmuley]

how do you envision the number of permits being set?

Back to population data again aren't we? mtmuley

 

[Forkyfinder]

Going to be tough to make up for lower tag sales with the base license and application fees.

Point sales...

 

[Treeshark]

Doesn’t address the over crowding though which isn’t just caused by non residents

I think it does by virtue of less deer hunters the first two weeks of October (other things going on).

 

[El Jason]

Absolutely. Which is why the initial post "lacked a point."

It didn’t lack a point , they got it.

 

[cgasner1]

If the LE portion of your proposal had tags limited to something like 10% of bucks counted post season, I could get behind that.

Number of tags issued must be tied to a biological factor if they’re issued in addition to a general season. Not just a percentage of hunters for the unit in previous years.

 

[brockel]

Would number of tags set for the LE be a combination of buck counts both whitetail and mule deer or how do you envision the number of permits being set?

You could do it that way with end of season counts from the previous year. Though it would still be tough to have much control over which species is getting thumped on harder during the rut. Truthfully breaking it out into a mule deer tag and another being a whitetail tag would be better to manage and come up with a number for each but that’s more restrictive than I think would pass through.

CWD would be a major factor into the biologists numbers as well

 

[Archer86]

Specifics I’m looking for is how the concept of regional caps or LE would be implemented statewide.

1. Numbers set for each region or district?

Units caps like idaho

2. Resident and Nonresident? NR only?

Nr only

3 Statewide or regional only?

Statewide every unit has a nr cap

4. Impacts to FWP budget?

Everytag will sell out eventually no hit to fwp budget. If it doesn't go in the primary draw it will eventually once all the draws are completed and enough hunters dont get a tag somewhere else.

5.What happens when someone doesn’t get their applied for region/district?

They dont hunt.

 

[Forkyfinder]

CWD would be a major factor into the biologists numbers as well

Importanty - if theres a CWD issue - making general during rut would harvest a lot of deer if everywhere else is LE

 

[brockel]

Going to be tough to make up for lower tag sales with the base license and application fees.

How would they be lower? You aren’t eliminating any tags. Add on the non refundable $150 non resident application fee. You are gaining more non resident applications because some are applying for October and some for November. Residents are paying $20 for a deer tag. Resident application for the limited entry could be $20.

This looks like more money from non resident applications to me.

 

[El Jason]

Asking because I don’t know, how many of these ideas have been written down onto paper with objectives, goals, likely, fiscal outcomes?

I would tend to agree with muley, probably the first step is start, looking at things on a regional basis, and dial into what are hunt district specific needs that need addressed? Once you’ve got that, then you can look at bigger picture, and how do you integrate this on a statewide basis?

What statutory changes would need addressed, what physical outcomes need addressed, And what are the unintended consequences. This is a little bit more complex.

And, whether someone likes them or not, MOGA is going to have to be a big proponent of this in order to get anything passed on a substantial change level

 

[cgasner1]

Asking because I don’t know, how many of these ideas have been written down onto paper with objectives, goals, likely, fiscal outcomes?

Just 1 publicly