Montana on the Upswing?
- Thread starter Blacktailbc
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mdunc8
Well-known member
Think I finally found a late season sanctuary. A lot of up-and-comers still out there. Should be good hunting for the next few years.
And the only reason the bucks in the aforementioned districts do, is because of the limited harvest. Imagine if areas like the Breaks were limited. mtmuley
joelweb
Well-known member
Why are the non-bitterroot trophy units subpar?
Made me laugh. My brother did that when we were kids 40 years ago. Pissed off next door neighbor with a drag trail in the snow to our house. mtmuley
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timmy
Guest
I get to look around a giant ranch that allows basically no hunting. I watched a 200 inch deer last year and every year there are multiple 180 plus deer. The genetics are there the management isn’t. I agree the genetics aren’t as good as some areas but if we didn’t have a general rut hunt Montana would kick out better deer. 652 is hardly a trophy district it’s just a draw unit that is now up to 100 tags? And it is a small area.
joelweb
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Sorry, Terry. I'm not following.
EYJONAS!
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Are you talking about only draw areas or the whole general deal as well.
EasternWA8989
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Walk into the miles city FWP office and tell me the genetics arent there in the Southeast.
All the private land keep the deer alive, but in turn 90% of the hunters merge onto the little public and shoot it completely out every year. Few make it.
While I'd love to see everything split into actual regional draws (at the least). What is more likely and doable is at least put the majority of those mule deer doe tags as landowner tags.
All the private land keep the deer alive, but in turn 90% of the hunters merge onto the little public and shoot it completely out every year. Few make it.
While I'd love to see everything split into actual regional draws (at the least). What is more likely and doable is at least put the majority of those mule deer doe tags as landowner tags.
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EYJONAS!
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Maybe you need to get outta the bitterroot more?
BuzzH
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Joel, I don't buy that for a minute. With all due respect, I also don't think you have the experience to draw those kind of conclusions or know enough people that hunted in the 1960's and 1970's in Montana. A lot of people would chit their fruit of the looms if they saw some of the bucks that used to come from within 50-60 miles of Missoula. Good mature bucks in the 170-190 range weren't uncommon at all coming from Rock Creek, Drummond, Petty Creek, Fish Creek, Ovando, Helmville, Tarkio, Cedar Creek, etc. The little belts, tenderfoot, and dry range used to have some very very good bucks, and you could kill 2 bucks per hunter per season. That Kalispell, Eureka, Whitefish area is another place that used to hold some great bucks and again, I have a friend who shot some real good ones all through the 1980's, including a few B&C bucks up that way. All those areas are a shell of what they were. Another friend of mine killed a net 195 buck, and several in that 170-185 gross range, within sight of Missoula from the mid 1980's- mid 1990's. Last I talked to him, he hasn't seen what he considers a shootable buck in there for 20+ years.
I can also tell you, the RMF was off the hook for the few people that hunted it. I know a couple serious mule deer hunters that many would be appalled at by the number of huge mule deer bucks they killed in that country. I've seen the photos, its really incredible...again just a shell of what it was.
Point being that a lot of people even my age, don't really have a way to compare what we have currently, with what used to be. A lot of the locals in all those areas, that really got after it and shot some huge bucks, have either quit or have died. I think its a bold statement to claim that some of the areas you mentioned don't have, or never had, trophy potential. Many would think the exact same thing about many of the areas I mentioned above if they never hunted them prior to the 1980's or personally knew people who did.
Montana historically produced a lot of big mule deer all across the state, its not bad genetics. In fact, I remember when the Bitterroot went draw only, many claimed it was a waste of time since "all the genetics" had been shot out of the deer there. I also recall that nearly all the harvest on mule deer in the root was 1.5-2.5 year old deer. Now its one of the most sought after tags in the State. Guess maybe the genetics weren't gone, just took some management.
I think why we see so few 180+ deer now, is that there are wayyyy fewer mule deer in general, and the lack of them reaching an age to be a 180 buck. I think its a rare mule deer that will be 180, and even more rare to be 180 at 4.5 years old. Sadly, a vast, vast majority of mule deer in Montana are lucky to even see their 4th birthday, let alone live to be 6-8 years old when they really are mature and most likely to be in that 180 range. I've just seen way too many photos of big deer that used to come from all corners of Montana to make a statement that the potential just never has been there, and still doesn't exist with better management.
I'm also not a proponent of managing every part of the state strictly for trophy potential, but there are some very simple things the MTFWP could adopt that would allow more bucks to live past 3.5-4.5 years old and still provide opportunity.
Judging by the number of people that apply for the limited units, there seems to be an appetite for older, higher scoring bucks and/or a better experience.
But, in all honesty, if the current crop of Instafamous, flat brimmed bro hunters thinks things are just peachy in Montana...I'm good with that too. I'll jump on the bandwagon and pretend that's how things have always been and I don't know any different.
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BuzzH
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An old friend of mine that has killed some great mule deer says about the same thing, "any big animal killed in Montana is not because of the MTFWP, its in SPITE of the MTFWP."
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timmy
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It’s fun to talk about change but it ain’t happening and if you think I’m wrong walk in to the fish and game office and they will give you the same canned answers of why you are wrong and why what they are currently doing is the best possible management.
EYJONAS!
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timmy
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The dimmest of bulbs are gonna have to see it like buzz says and we got people packing in 3+ miles to shoot a two point and having the time of their lives. No offense outlaw I’m glad you had a good hunt. After seeing the demand for the general 2 point hunt south of Boise, Montana will never hit rock bottom. Better get used to it this is the new normal.
joelweb
Well-known member
I'm glad I could get all you guys fired up! Clearly a passionate subject that we all enjoy debating.
You're right, Buzz. I didn't hunt in Montana during the '60s and '70s, and I know there were some great bucks taken then. I also know that counties like Madison were producing Booners in that era but aren't now in trophy units like 324. I can't help but question why and I think something else is going on in addition to harvest and age structure.
You're right, Buzz. I didn't hunt in Montana during the '60s and '70s, and I know there were some great bucks taken then. I also know that counties like Madison were producing Booners in that era but aren't now in trophy units like 324. I can't help but question why and I think something else is going on in addition to harvest and age structure.
joelweb
Well-known member
Draw areas. thanks.
I'm only 31, but I found myself turning into a pissed off curmudgeon this year seeing all the Instagram videos of average mule deer bucks being shot by transplants who moved to Bozeman for a job in the hunting industry. Heaven forbid these guys don't fill every tag and get a picture to post on social media to prove they are legit. All these bucks looked like they were being shot in eastern Montana. The depressing thing is everyone coming to Montana to hunt thinks the deer situation is great because its better than where they come from. Even just in my 19 years of hunting in Montana I have seen it change big time. Sure there are still some nice bucks shot every year,but the quality of the experience has gone down drastically. Knowing what it was and could be, its hard for me to be happy with "well it's a hell of a lot better than where I came from."
huntin24/7
Well-known member
This is so true. Of the few big bucks killed in the area I live, most all are killed off locked up private ranches. The small handful every year not killed on these ranches, usually by the same few guys, are killed as soon as they make a mistake and step across onto private land that allows access, or as soon as they step across the Canadian border. I don’t know of one big deer around here that actually was living on public or accessible private land killed in the last several years. Doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened, but every one has been killed by guys who’ve scouted them and hunt morning, evening, or both of most days of season waiting for them to cross a fence.
