Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[El Jason]

I do not believe that we can fix what is wrong with Mule deer hunting in MT by taking something away from someone else.
I do not mean to imply that a higher nonresident harvest than the resident harvest is in any way ok, but you could fix it by convincing residents to just pull the damn trigger. I am not too sure that would fix anything, but it would change the harvest ratio.
Could it be that residents won't pull the trigger because our season never ends until it is time to get those presents under the tree?

I agree 100% with your assessment. I think the NR harvest numbers are also skewed by outfitter clients as well.

 

[Wyoming270]

As usual - you have ZERO clue.

Glad to hear the guy who has taken hundreds of pictures of mule deer, has many mule deer skulls on the wall, and has collected dozens upon dozens of sheds has no clue that they actually have an excellent population right now. thats the definition of one who does VS one who types about. I would recomend you get out and WALK more.

 

[Wyoming270]

I don't disagree. That is what I was getting at with

"Reducing hunter numbers would surely have some other desirable effects, however."

The non resident thing can be ultra damaging. Ive seen many who are desperate to make a shot because its their last couple days before they leave. or they simply dont understand the animal and disturb all of the bedding areas. Ive noticed a lot of people still have not adjusted to the areas where mature ponderosa pine were beetle killed, chipped, and are now 10 ft tall thickets of young aspens. Mule deer habitat has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Aside from droughts, pine beetles, and wild fires, we also have a lot of instances of what was once undisturbed now having a $3M house perched in the middle of it.

 

[Wyoming270]

Quitcher whining. We get to hunt mule deer for 5 weeks with a rifle on an OTC tag. MT mule deer hunting is as good as it ever was and ever could be and I’m going to shoot a 20” forked horn in Region 7 this year to prove it.

Your priveleaged getting 5 weeks. We get 2 most places with a general tag. The draw tags are slightly better but good luck ever seeing one of those. I do see dozens of mule deer everytime im out elk hunting though.

 

[cgasner1]

Glad to hear the guy who has taken hundreds of pictures of mule deer, has many mule deer skulls on the wall, and has collected dozens upon dozens of sheds has no clue that they actually have an excellent population right now. thats the definition of one who does VS one who types about. I would recomend you get out and WALK more.

Be glad you don’t have a 5 week rifle season you wouldn’t have sheds to pick up. You also get more than a 2 weeks season you can always go hunt whitetails for some reason Wyoming lets you hunt those in November.

 

[Wyoming270]

Be glad you don’t have a 5 week rifle season you wouldn’t have sheds to pick up. You also get more than a 2 weeks season you can always go hunt whitetails for some reason Wyoming lets you hunt those in November.

Again those are draw tags.

 

[Point Creep]

 

[cgasner1]

Again those are draw tags.

You have general units that are open thru Nov may wanna go back and re read those regs. I’d trade you season structures in a heart beat

 

[Forkyfinder]

You have general units that are open thru Nov may wanna go back and re read those regs. I’d trade you season structures in a heart beat

Seems like moving will be easier and more likely.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Your priveleaged getting 5 weeks. We get 2 most places with a general tag. The draw tags are slightly better but good luck ever seeing one of those. I do see dozens of mule deer everytime im out elk hunting though.

You are privelaged getting less than 25% of the NR deer hunters that this state gets.

Anyone thinking you can sell over 20k NR tags and maintain "quality" regardless of season length/structure is pulling your leg..... Or their an outfitter, someone whos paid to represent them, or they have simply been duped.

 

[Forkyfinder]

That was money well spent for the dept of tourism folks, but from your graph the problem was already well established. Last year in R7, the non resident to resident license plate ratio was 10:1 NR to resident - there is a HUGE problem that needs to be looked at.

Heres the "problem" with that problem.

"Hunter days" is currently a worthless metric. The "day" is the same - whether it was grandpa that stops on some state land on thanksgiving morning for an hour - or some guy from the midwest who paid a pile for his tag and hunts most of everyday hes here.

Outfitters, legislators, and lobbyists will roll out that line of bullshit forever. On the decent trailheads/units - ive seen around 1/3rd to half NR, and in R7 my experience mirrors yours - its about all NR.

 

[Alpine01]

You are privelaged getting less than 25% of the NR deer hunters that this state gets.

Anyone thinking you can sell over 20k NR tags and maintain "quality" regardless of season length/structure is pulling your leg..... Or their an outfitter, someone whos paid to represent them, or they have simply been duped.

Well, Colorado sells over 17K NR tags and has a pretty decent level of quality. True, not over the 20K number you state but doesn't miss it by much. But CO also limits overall tag numbers which apparently Montana does not and deer seasons are pretty short, particularly for 4th rifle. Again, unlike Montana. NR's get about 20% of the total draw overall (per 2026 draw results) and harvest at about the same percentage. The more important note is that harvest rates are roughly 10% of the total population. How does Montana compare relative to that number?

 

[Forkyfinder]

NR are all but shut out of LE districts.

Actually - they get what most other places call "fair" - 90/10

 

[Forkyfinder]

Well, Colorado sells over 17K NR tags and has a pretty decent level of quality. True, not over the 20K number you state but doesn't miss it by much. But CO also limits overall tag numbers which apparently Montana does not and deer seasons are pretty short, particularly for 4th rifle. Again, unlike Montana. NR's get about 20% of the total draw overall (per 2026 draw results) and harvest at about the same percentage. The more important note is that harvest rates are roughly 10% of the total population. How does Montana compare relative to that number?

Yea - youre off on harvest stats here. Montana has about 35% of the state wide deer mule deer total harvested by NR.

You also have WAY more R tag sales. That explains a lot of the difference in "structure" alone.

Didnt your state recently make efforts to priotitize its residents?

 

[SAJ-99]

Yea - youre off on harvest stats here. Montana has about 35% of the state wide deer mule deer total harvested by NR.

You also have WAY more R tag sales. That explains a lot of the difference in "structure" alone.

Didnt your state recently make efforts to priotitize its residents?

3,000+ posts and the obvious is swept under the rug for the up-teenth time. What percentage of the budget is NR license sales? Montana prioritizes its residents with cheap licenses and long seasons. I’m a proponent of cutting NRs and cutting reissued tags at a minimum. But you guys need to decide how you’re going to pay your bills.

 

[Alpine01]

Yea - youre off on harvest stats here. Montana has about 35% of the state wide deer mule deer total harvested by NR.

You also have WAY more R tag sales. That explains a lot of the difference in "structure" alone.

Didnt your state recently make efforts to priotitize its residents?

Total number of tags drawn this year are just over 87K. R's got roughly 57K (Adult and youth combined). NR's got about 18K when you include youth licenses. My earlier number omitted youth tags. So NR's get roughly 20% of the opportunity. Whether they harvest 20%, or 10% or 35% of the animals is mostly irrelevant up to the point where harvest rates overall get well beyond objectives. At that point, NRs and Rs will both feel the pain. I am always surprised that their harvest rates aren't much higher than residents given their far higher investment in license costs and hunt/travel costs. If I was spending that much on an out of state deer hunt, I would probably hunt a lot harder than a resident that can go out for a day or two to enjoy a quick hunt.

Yes, CO has been moving to reduce NR tags, particularly for higher point draw units. The latest was to eliminate OTC elk archery tags for NR's as well as reduce NR percentages in the LE draws. For all the same reasons Montana hunters cite, NR overcrowding. Some in CO just see this as a late attempt to align to our neighbors where NR's are very restricted relative to access to elk/deer.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

3,000+ posts and the obvious is swept under the rug for the up-teenth time. What percentage of the budget is NR license sales? Montana prioritizes its residents with cheap licenses and long seasons. I’m a proponent of cutting NRs and cutting reissued tags at a minimum. But you guys need to decide how you’re going to pay your bills.

Pretty sure every Montana resident on Hunt Talk would gladly pay double. Maybe double wouldn’t be enough to close the gap in reduced NR license sales depending how many reduced, but point being we all know how ridiculously cheap the tags are and are fine with higher tag costs.

Now the majority of hunters in Montana is a different story and I think that’s where we get in the Hunt Talk echo chamber. I still think the majority of Montana Resident hunters will always take a long season over the rut and cheap tags subsidized by the NR.

I do think season structure (not general tag hunting rutting bucks every year) would be / is the bigger priority. Appreciate everything the mule deer working group has put forward.

 

[Forkyfinder]

3,000+ posts and the obvious is swept under the rug for the up-teenth time. What percentage of the budget is NR license sales? Montana prioritizes its residents with cheap licenses and long seasons. I’m a proponent of cutting NRs and cutting reissued tags at a minimum. But you guys need to decide how you’re going to pay your bills.

This tired old point again?

Double the price. Cut the NR tags in half. Theyll still all sell.

Theres plenty of more fair ways to deal with it. I think how people feel about paying more - is that theyre okay with it for a perceived quality increase. Id happily bet against you that legislators couldnt get support to do away with all 5k orphan tags and raise R tag prices to do it.

If you dont believe me that the tide is turning - look at the fact the commission was going to cut 5k of them with no plan for funding replacement.

 

[El Jason]

I didn’t calculate exact percentages, but in Wyoming, NR hunters harvest about 35% of the total deer killed. Maybe the percentage isn’t the issue.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/media/33467/download?inline

 

[Treeshark]

Cut the NR tags in half. Theyll still all sell.

They will still all sell, but that would cut the outfitted client base pretty much in half as well.