Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Forkyfinder]

I’m bored of killing elk on public land with rifles. It’s too easy, I’ll kill em if the seasons a week or 6. I have no interest in lobbing round balls 200 yards at winter range bulls. But I would give up my general rifle tag to call in and shoot a quality bull with a smoke pole at 20 yards in the timber. Even if it was LE short season and could only do it every few years. And I didn’t even own a ML till 6 months ago

If youre bored you could always quit

 

[Gerald Martin]

I can respect that answer. All I'm really asking is to help the funding issues and let those biologists run the extra studies. With the loss of doe tags for nr sale (for sure win) we will have to be creative ourselves as residents. Anywhere from 2 to 20 dollars on every tag or license depending.. but increases need to happen as well for true proactive research to begin. I'm sure if I spent some time on it I could figure the projected millions but small increases on everything for everyone will still create millions of additional funds. I think the structure can work, I have my concerns about the initial fomo but if with mandatory reporting it would essentially force fwp with pick your region to put regional caps if its too excessive. It's clear the east gets to much pressure from not hunting it in 15 years to going, to going last year, it's a zoo. And I hope this plan would cull that. I just have concerns if their is no caps initially on the east either it might push alot of people put there unintentional with separate seasons. I think a majority of the mule deer hunter like the east. Personally I go after wt most years around home. But I appreciate the work I just want to probably include more that's just not gonna happen.

Everything you’ve outlined is pretty much compatible with our proposal. I’m not opposed to regional caps, I just don’t know how they would be implemented with any type of measurable connection to resource needs and how they would be accepted by the public. If FWP could be convinced to implement our proposal with the additional regional caps I don’t think you’d see pushback from us.

 

[Sioux33]

So, there's a couple themes coming up that might need more compromise to get all parties to agree. One, the intent of this plan is to reduce pressure on the resource, but I'm not sure how that happens when it increases the number of huntable days, has no "dead" period to give public lands a break, and increases the amount of time rifles are cracking on public. The other is what archery guys have chimed in on. They're willing to give up some October hunting, but not all of it. This doesn't pass without their buy-in, so where's the middle ground? Below is what I'd say is a middle ground that everyone gives up a little, everyone gets to keep a little something they like, and it's less pressure on the resource.

9/1-10/10: archery season. This gets you the buy-in from the bowhunters. They lose a week from the current season, but nobody really cares about that last week anyway so you keep them happy by giving them the first 10 days of October.

10/11-10/23ish: dead period on public land and OTC cow/doe tags on private. This attempts to redistribute the animals back onto public for the upcoming rifle opener. Hopefully this will allow some folks to fill their tags and freezers and keep them off the public later in the season.

10/24ish-11/8-10ish: general rifle season. Yes, the season bleeds into November, but it's a compromise to the rifle hunters and keeps the circus out of the heart of the rut. Hopefully the animals have settled down on public compared to a 31 day deer rifle season pushing them onto private. To make it even better for the resource, deer is a pick your species/pick your unit/pick your weapon model. If you choose mule deer, this is your season, it ends on Nov 10th or so. That is unless you draw one of the 50-100 LE permits that goes till Thanksgiving. This allows you to get a rut hunt every 5-10 years or so and is similar to what CO does, which most folks agree is the best MD state in the west. If you pick whitetails, you can rifle hunt till Thanksgiving. If you pick archery, you hunt either species till Thanksgiving. That has to have some attraction or else nobody will pick it. The deer seasons coincide with elk season to keep even more pressure off the deer. For a rifle hunter, you have a fraction of the pressure on MD with the opportunity to luck out and hunt the rut. For a bow hunter, you get to keep hunting in November, but you just made the draw odds a lot better for the rifle guys.

Muzzleloader: same as it is now. I don't think we should be chasing them on winter range, but that's a fight for another day since it's gotta go through the legislature.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I like his better, guys..

 

[cgasner1]

So, there's a couple themes coming up that might need more compromise to get all parties to agree. One, the intent of this plan is to reduce pressure on the resource, but I'm not sure how that happens when it increases the number of huntable days, has no "dead" period to give public lands a break, and increases the amount of time rifles are cracking on public. The other is what archery guys have chimed in on. They're willing to give up some October hunting, but not all of it. This doesn't pass without their buy-in, so where's the middle ground? Below is what I'd say is a middle ground that everyone gives up a little, everyone gets to keep a little something they like, and it's less pressure on the resource.

9/1-10/10: archery season. This gets you the buy-in from the bowhunters. They lose a week from the current season, but nobody really cares about that last week anyway so you keep them happy by giving them the first 10 days of October.

10/11-10/23ish: dead period on public land and OTC cow/doe tags on private. This attempts to redistribute the animals back onto public for the upcoming rifle opener. Hopefully this will allow some folks to fill their tags and freezers and keep them off the public later in the season.

10/24ish-11/8-10ish: general rifle season. Yes, the season bleeds into November, but it's a compromise to the rifle hunters and keeps the circus out of the heart of the rut. Hopefully the animals have settled down on public compared to a 31 day deer rifle season pushing them onto private. To make it even better for the resource, deer is a pick your species/pick your unit/pick your weapon model. If you choose mule deer, this is your season, it ends on Nov 10th or so. That is unless you draw one of the 50-100 LE permits that goes till Thanksgiving. This allows you to get a rut hunt every 5-10 years or so and is similar to what CO does, which most folks agree is the best MD state in the west. If you pick whitetails, you can rifle hunt till Thanksgiving. If you pick archery, you hunt either species till Thanksgiving. That has to have some attraction or else nobody will pick it. The deer seasons coincide with elk season to keep even more pressure off the deer. For a rifle hunter, you have a fraction of the pressure on MD with the opportunity to luck out and hunt the rut. For a bow hunter, you get to keep hunting in November, but you just made the draw odds a lot better for the rifle guys.

Muzzleloader: same as it is now. I don't think we should be chasing them on winter range, but that's a fight for another day since it's gotta go through the legislature.

Make it happen

 

[TheTone]

I haven’t read all of this but; any reason not to have deer and elk at the same time or at least both in October? As presented it would seem to me that having them split will let people concentrate on one and then the other instead of putting everything in one bucket and just getting things over with.

 

[Doublecluck]

I understand and can personally agree with a value of methods that increase quality/opportunity. However, you not having an emotional attachment to any specific season or structure is an anomaly compared to a majority of hunters.

“Opportunity” and ensconced season structure expectations are deeply rooted within MT hunting culture. Any proposal that pushes against ingrained cultural values without attempting to stay within acceptable parameters of the hunting public is going to be the proverbial “snowball in hell”.

What I/we prefer and what we can get the public to support and FWP to adopt are not always the same thing.

I think the majority of my friends could be convinced to give up general seasons/rut hunting for more better managed quality LE units. I'm not saying everyone in the state go out with a smoke pole in the Rut, which is what it seems somehow my comment has been interpreted as. Rn we put in for the hardest to draw le units in the state for deer and elk and I’m not really convinced were gonna get anything that we couldn’t on a general tag if we draw those tags. If I’m Joe public what do I gain by giving any of that up. nothing.

15-20 LE 380 ML tags or 100 LE 410 mule deer tags in the rut.

I think a lot of people could be persuaded to give up their birth right to whack a 130” mule if they knew every 3,5,10 years they had good odds at a quality hunt.

I realize that’s not the norm.

 

[mtmuley]

I don't know who coined the "birth right" thing. Pretty stupid. mtmuley

 

[Doublecluck]

I don't know who coined the "birth right" thing. Pretty stupid. mtmuley

Someone on this forum I’m sure.

 

[mtmuley]

Someone on this forum I’m sure.

Probly a transplant. mtmuley

 

[Visiting Hunter]

I don't know who coined the "birth right" thing. Pretty stupid. mtmuley

I see 1 member use it the most, granted I haven't been around long enough to figure out where it came from. But maybe it was one of the come home to hunters. Feeling it's a birth right to come back to their home stomping grounds for seasonal hunting.

 

[Doublecluck]

Probly a transplant. mtmuley

The conspiracy theories are entertaining. Especially the ones about this proposal. I realize I don’t get an opinion because I wasn’t born here. Hold on, lemme ask my 8 year old. She says she would rather shoot a big buck every couple years than shoot A buck every year. There you have it.

 

[mtmuley]

The conspiracy theories are entertaining. Especially the ones about this proposal. I realize I don’t get an opinion because I wasn’t born here. Hold on, lemme ask my 8 year old. She says she would rather shoot a big buck every couple years than shoot A buck every year. There you have it.

Not what I meant but ok. I agree with your 8 year old. I haven't touched the trigger on Montana mule deer in 20 years or so. But, it is my birth right. mtmuley

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I asked my 10 year old and my wife. She’s born and raised here. They both said every year….

 

[Hem]

This is getting funny.
Guess I should check in with Michigan to see what my birthright is.
Haven't been back for 55 years.

But I like your direction @Doublecluck with the LE ML. Offer a limited amount of lottery tags for a elk rut hunt. That would be more exciting than an annual heritage season in mid December. I think this Heritage season only truly benefits private land hunters, of which I am not.

 

[mtmuley]

This is getting funny.
Guess I should check in with Michigan to see what my birthright is.
Haven't been back for 55 years.

You might be missing out. Sorry to derail but I'm betting a lot of hunters hammering dinks during the rut can't claim the "birth right". SMH. mtmuley

 

[DFS]

Ben Lamb just got accused of funding these shenanigans on Montanica. How much money are all you guys making out of this?

 

[Gerald Martin]

The conspiracy theories are entertaining. Especially the ones about this proposal. I realize I don’t get an opinion because I wasn’t born here. Hold on, lemme ask my 8 year old. She says she would rather shoot a big buck every couple years than shoot A buck every year. There you have it.

Speaking personally, I would prefer a quality hunt every 2-3 years with opportunity to hunt antlerless every year over an either sex tag every year and poor hunting. I’m like you in that regard. You and I are not the norm of what most Montana hunters prefer.

Moving from OTC every year tags to LE for everything would never be acceptable in MT. Nor do I think it’s necessary to go entirely to LE in order to get a better hunt and better management for the resource.

 

[BuzzH]

Stay the course on the original proposal...let the naysayers, well, naysay all they want.

I respect the proposal and the guys in the working group that put it together, yes, even you @Eric Albus...there I said it, as painful as it was.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Ben Lamb just got accused of funding these shenanigans on Montanica. How much money are all you guys making out of this?

No, Ben Lamb’s shadow organization is accused of paying for this.

Full transparency on my financial windfall for this process.

Splitting a motel room three ways with Randy & Justin. $50 out of pocket.

Dinner at Dave’s Hot Chicken in Billings. 15.00 Highly recommend- 4/4 stars would eat there again. Get the chicken slider platter/ one hot/ one mild.

A tank of gas for Randy’s truck since I carpooled to Billings with him. $60 out of pocket.

Cost of groceries for lunch fixings and pasta salad. $25 out of pocket plus the Tupperware bowl that Randy still has because we couldn’t get his frozen lock on the topper to open.

I did get to eat Art’s beef since he supplied the hamburger for lunch burgers at our meeting. That’s probably worth about $50 since they were really good burgers.

Ben bought me dinner in Bozeman at Sidewinders on the tail end of one of his trips. That was @$21 for a great chicken fried steak.

Time in the presence of the illustrious personalities credited with participating in crafting this proposal- Priceless
Whatever that’s tallied up to be is how much I’ve made so far…