Montana General Season Structure Proposal 3.0

[Forkyfinder]

@Forkyfinder. Good question. I mistakenly posted up an old screenshot. Late cow no longer exists. We are not going to mess with how FWP implements post general season shoulder seasons

Its a shame - you should have deleted them

 

[Gerald Martin]

@Gerald Martin - are LE districts excluded from the dates? I didnt see that covered.

Somewhere in all the reading it’s covered. LE districts will conform with archery dates to avoid conflict between archery/rifle hunters in districts where elk and deer regs may differ from permit for one species to general for the other.

LE general season will conform with late deer to capture the same season dates as currently exist and allow those permit holders to hunt through the rut.

Backcountry wilderness hunts will remain unchanged from current season dates.

 

[cgasner1]

I haven’t read the full proposal yet but it’s a hard no for me on the youth either sex from November 27-30.

I’d think most kids will probably be tagged out before that season opens. Also it keeps dads from targeting bucks and letting kids have first crack at the landscape. I’ve taken part of a couple youth hunts the first one I scouted a buck for a co workers kid for a week on the opener a 10 year old smashed a 186” buck

 

[DFS]

I’d think most kids will probably be tagged out before that season opens. Also it keeps dads from targeting bucks and letting kids have first crack at the landscape. I’ve taken part of a couple youth hunts the first one I scouted a buck for a co workers kid for a week on the opener a 10 year old smashed a 186” buck

I wouldn’t count on it and the hardo dads will take the top end off of any bucks out there. The plan is missing pick your region and nonresident caps also. It is not hard to look at fwp stats to see the majority of the harvest is during rifle season. It would definitely shift the better bucks getting harvested by youth though. I have a lot of nieces and nephews.

 

[cgasner1]

I wouldn’t count on it and the hardo dads will take the top end off of any bucks out there. The plan is missing pick your region and nonresident caps also. It is not hard to look at fwp stats to see the majority of the harvest is during rifle season. It would definitely shift the better bucks getting harvested by youth though. I have a lot of nieces and nephews.

Last paragraph of post one is really about all I got to say on all that. If I can do anything to help you let me know. I’m here for change and we think this is our best shot at introducing a change.

 

[antlerradar]

My other critique is in this is making the rifle season longer and that is where the problems start. Especially with landowner fatigue. That being said I appreciate the effort that was put in to this and I hope we get traction for change.

Landowner fatigue is real. As a landowner I would have a season in Oct no longer than three weeks long. Plenty of landowners in SE MT look south at WY with envy at the two weeks of rifle season and one month of archery. Reality is that is just not happening in MT.
It is not all bad for landowners.
Not going change much for many landowners, We already have hunters just about every day from the first of Sept to well into Dec. Adding a few days in Aug is not going to change much.
Gets rifle mule deer out of the rut. This is when most of the issues happen, when mule deer are dumb and standing next to the road all day long. This is a big plus for landowners
It is going to be busy during the overlap, but not any more busy than peak rut is now, and much of the fall there will be only half as many hunters.
If you property is primarily mule deer, you are all but done with hunting season the first week of Nov.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I know you all have worked really hard on this.

By this point it seems so watered down it looks hardly any different from the status quo, and the value of pushing forward seems questionable. If there are any significant differences from what is already in place, they are not obvious.

Who is your intended audience for the graphs and many paragraphs of intent and justification? I can’t imagine your average hunter will see a clear, obvious, and straightforward what and why for the proposal. I wonder how well-versed the persons in authority are about all the gritty details and nuance to understand how this works as a whole to improve things.

You all started out bold and big, and it was an exciting proposal. Over time and a lot of engagement with folks not on the forum we became aware of how deeply entrenched opposition is from so many corners, and how starkly unrealistic some very logical and reasonable changes were.

At the end of the day I sincerely hope this is a step in the right direction, or at very least the beginning of a shift away from the decades-long decline in quality elk and deer hunting opportunities on MT public land.

 

[Dan O]

How is the muzzleloader season set regarding whitetail vs mule deer? Also do the elk reg's remain the same as general season?

 

[Forkyfinder]

I know you all have worked really hard on this.

By this point it seems so watered down it looks hardly any different from the status quo, and the value of pushing forward seems questionable. If there are any significant differences from what is already in place, they are not obvious.

Who is your intended audience for the graphs and many paragraphs of intent and justification? I can’t imagine your average hunter will see a clear, obvious, and straightforward what and why for the proposal. I wonder how well-versed the persons in authority are about all the gritty details and nuance to understand how this works as a whole to improve things.

You all started out bold and big, and it was an exciting proposal. Over time and a lot of engagement with folks not on the forum we became aware of how deeply entrenched opposition is from so many corners, and how starkly unrealistic some very logical and reasonable changes were.

At the end of the day I sincerely hope this is a step in the right direction, or at very least the beginning of a shift away from the decades-long decline in quality elk and deer hunting opportunities on MT public land.

I disagree with your assessment.

Theres stuff i dont like (earlier archery elk), but having 3 weeks lobbed off the end of rut hunting is an improvement for mule deer.

 

[shoots-straight]

How is the muzzleloader season set regarding whitetail vs mule deer? Also do the elk reg's remain the same as general season?

That's set statutorily, we'd like to see the commission have a say in Muzzleloader seasons.

 

[Dan O]

That's set statutorily, we'd like to see the commission have a say in Muzzleloader seasons.

What changes would you like to see?

 

[shoots-straight]

What changes would you like to see?

Personally, if there's no change in with our proposal, I'd probably move the Muzzleloader up to the week between archery and rifle. Maybe take a day away from both to keep 9 days. Remember we added Saturday to the rifle not too many years ago.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I disagree with your assessment.

Theres stuff i dont like (earlier archery elk), but having 3 weeks lobbed off the end of rut hunting is an improvement for mule deer.

“Hunters will no longer have to choose between deer species but rather between “ Early Deer” or “Late Deer” and may hunt whichever deer species is open during their chosen season.”

You buy a “late deer” tag and hunt mulies late Oct thru late Nov??

OK, now after reading it 4 times I get what you are saying - late deer is both species, but only mulies until Nov 5.

The graph and the text could be revamped, because it is confusing.

 

[bigsky2]

What changes would you like to see?

The group has no desire to move the muzzleloader season. We’d just like the commission to have authority over that season, like all of the other seasons. It is the only season set in statute and we don’t believe the legislature should be setting season dates.

 

[brockel]

Looks like region 7 will be piss pounded for an extra 2 weeks. Would hate to be a landowner

 

[Forkyfinder]

Looks like region 7 will be piss pounded for an extra 2 weeks. Would hate to be a landowner

I think theres a case it spreads things out. I imagine it also really depends on the landowner and their business model. Depending on where your property is, and what you do with it, it could certainly be a benefit.

I would be most concerned with block management funding and the impacts there - im not necessarily sure you'd end up with less hunter days on it.

 

[cgasner1]

Looks like region 7 will be piss pounded for an extra 2 weeks. Would hate to be a landowner

This whole process I’ve had to let things sit for a few days and gather my thoughts on how it would affect my hunting season and what kinda pressure I think I’d see. I’d bet for the most part once you hit “second” rifle season things start to really clear out in 7 that season overlap will have pressure for sure. I don’t see how it could be any worse than what we currently see the last couple weeks of the rifle structure we have now. Other than it’s moved out of the end of Nov. that was the 1st and only goal of this was to move the mule deer season out of that Nov time frame

 

[brockel]

This whole process I’ve had to let things sit for a few days and gather my thoughts on how it would affect my hunting season and what kinda pressure I think I’d see. I’d bet for the most part once you hit “second” rifle season things start to really clear out in 7 that season overlap will have pressure for sure. I don’t see how it could be any worse than what we currently see the last couple weeks of the rifle structure we have now. Other than it’s moved out of the end of Nov. that was the 1st and only goal of this was to move the mule deer season out of that Nov time frame

If you had to pick either late or early season I’d agree. But being able to be out there for 7 weeks rifle hunting deer is ridiculous

 

[bigsky2]

I think theres a case it spreads things out. I imagine it also really depends on the landowner and their business model. Depending on where your property is, and what you do with it, it could certainly be a benefit.

I would be most concerned with block management funding and the impacts there - im not necessarily sure you'd end up with less hunter days on it.

I think for the most part it would spread pressure out. The overall number of rifle deer hunting days would be longer, but the intensity of pressure would be much less. That 12-day overlap of whitetail and mule deer hunting (Oct 25-Nov 8) would be the same intensity of pressure that we see now, but that's much better than all of November being that way. I think after November 5th, the pressure in much of Region 7 would be relatively light compared to what it is now. I don't see most of Region 7 being a destination area for people to go hunt whitetails. I think mule deer pressure in October would be less too with the deer not rutting next to the side of the road and hunters not being able to combine their hunt with elk hunting for most of the early season. There will be some landowners that have a 50/50 mix of whitetails and mule deer, but those are the outliers.

If you had to pick either late or early season I’d agree. But being able to be out there for 7 weeks rifle hunting deer is ridiculous

You do have to pick.

 

[brockel]

I think for the most part it would spread pressure out. The overall number of rifle deer hunting days would be longer, but the intensity of pressure would be much less. That 12-day overlap of whitetail and mule deer hunting (Oct 25-Nov 8) would be the same intensity of pressure that we see now, but that's much better than all of November being that way. I think after November 5th, the pressure in much of Region 7 would be relatively light compared to what it is now. I don't see most of Region 7 being a destination area for people to go hunt whitetails. There will be some landowners that have a 50/50 mix of whitetails and mule deer, but those are the outliers.

You do have to pick.

Yep I see that now. Miss read it and was thinking you could hunt the entire time just changed from mule deer to whitetail later on.