Montana General Season Structure Proposal 3.0

[Gerald Martin]

You dont have the balls to add it.

Im an asshole. Id own that here and there. I am not a liar though.

Yes, you are an asshole. You have that much correct. I’d add rude and pretentious as additional adjectives to describe your online interactions as well.

 

[cgasner1]

Hunting deer in sept isnt much different than October. Ask me how I know I’ll be happy to post some more pictures

 

[Forkyfinder]

Hunting deer in sept isnt much different than October. Ask me how I know I’ll be happy to post some more pictures

Hunting deer with a rifle and arent close to the same - especially that time of year.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Yes, you are an asshole. You have that much correct. I’d add rude and pretentious as additional adjectives to describe your online interactions as well.

You cant add it. Despite it being a credible, consistent, and legitimate critique.

Itd be easy.

 

[Carnage2011]

Wow….thats all I’ve got for this thread. Just, wow.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Bullshit. I addressed that earlier. Stop pretending that folks aren’t addressing your concerns. We’re not trying to save every single mule deer in MT. The impacts of incidental harvesting of mule deer from antelope hunters is going to be less than the impact of elk hunters harvesting mule deer when compared statewide.
Fact.

Thats an assumption. Not a fact.

Theres an easy fix to that critique. If its a non-issue why wouldnt you add a restriction on it?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Yes, you are an asshole. You have that much correct. I’d add rude and pretentious as additional adjectives to describe your online interactions as well.

Sorry. I should have said.

"Your facillitators wont allow it"

 

[Gerald Martin]

Thats an assumption. Not a fact.

Theres an easy fix to that critique. If its a non-issue why wouldnt you add a restriction on it?

1.Because, when viewed statewide it’s a nonissue.

2. Because there’s no precedent for any other hunt in the state that prohibits holding different tags for different species and hunting them concurrently when the seasons overlap.

Why don’t you add a prohibition to your proposal that would prohibit hunters from shooting mule deer when they are holding a valid elk tag? Is it because you lack balls?

 

[Forkyfinder]

1.Because, when viewed statewide it’s a nonissue.

2. Because there’s no precedent for any other hunt in the state that prohibits holding different tags for different species and hunting them concurrently when the seasons overlap.

Why don’t you add a prohibition to your proposal that would prohibit hunters from shooting mule deer when they are holding a valid elk tag? Is it because you lack balls?

No - none of my facilitators allowed such extremism.

 

[mtmuley]

1.Because, when viewed statewide it’s a nonissue.

2. Because there’s no precedent for any other hunt in the state that prohibits holding different tags for different species and hunting them concurrently when the seasons overlap.

Why don’t you add a prohibition to your proposal that would prohibit hunters from shooting mule deer when they are holding a valid elk tag? Is it because you lack balls?

You gonna go all Buzz here? mtmuley

 

[Carnage2011]

Sorry. I should have said.

"Your facillitators wont allow it"

Come on man. Quit being an asshole. These are grown men that came together to try and come up with a plan to improve Montana’s mule deer situation. There’s no facilitator’s involved. Just because BHA and MSA want to paint that picture doesn’t mean it’s true. You’ve got to let go of that shtick. Thats the reason that several of the orgs in MT have lost their credibility amongst hunters than have previously supported them.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Ill just summarize my thoughts - and leave the rest to the HT community that loves this proposal.

1. Opening antelope AFTER mule deer (with a halloween closing) - will lead to incidental harvest not seen now. How much isnt known - all that honest people can do is speculate.
2. Opening mule deer hunting up 4 weeks earlier than elk hunting WILL lead to a reduction in elk hunting quality.
3. Moving archery elk opener up will lead to elk on private even earlier.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Come on man. Quit being an asshole. These are grown men that came together to try and come up with a plan to improve Montana’s mule deer situation. There’s no facilitator’s involved. Just because BHA and MSA want to paint that picture doesn’t mean it’s true. You’ve got to let go of that shtick. Thats the reason that several of the orgs in MT have lost their credibility amongst hunters than have previously supported them.

Thats been a very consistent critique since this proposals inception. It isnt just me. Im just the only person who cares little about being brashed online.

Im out on the thread (see previous post), if im being an asshole, i dont mean to be. Ive helped with the MTCSO proposal and respect all of the volunterrs.

I dont however, accept the total disregard for the concerns that people have.

 

[Carnage2011]

Thats been a very consistent critique since this proposals inception. It isnt just me. Im just the only person who cares little about being brashed online.

Im out on the thread (see previous post), if im being an asshole, i dont mean to be. Ive helped with the MTCSO proposal and respect all of the volunterrs.

I dont however, accept the total disregard for the concerns that people have.

I’m not talking about your consistent critique. I’m talking about you acting like a prick and insinuating that these guys can’t make decisions on their own because they have “facilitators.” That is blatantly false.

 

[Dave N]

 

[shoots-straight]

Come on man. Quit being an asshole. These are grown men that came together to try and come up with a plan to improve Montana’s mule deer situation. There’s no facilitator’s involved. Just because BHA and MSA want to paint that picture doesn’t mean it’s true. You’ve got to let go of that shtick. Thats the reason that several of the orgs in MT have lost their credibility amongst hunters than have previously supported them.

So you know I'm a founding member of MSA, also on this mule deer group. I've had discussions with those active members of MSA to assure them that "Facilitators" involved did not direct any criteria. These guys have worked very hard on this proposal. Carry on.

 

[El Jason]

Im just the only person who cares little about being brashed online.

I’m going to call it like I see it. You are dishonest. You make accusations out of the blue and when someone calls you on them you dodge it.

You state opinions as fact, and refuse to admit your opinion is not necessarily the only correct answer. Just because someone doesn’t share the same concern for your opinion doesn’t mean they disregard it. It means they disagree.

I’d suggest a little more maturity and respect to go along with your passion.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Thats been a very consistent critique since this proposals inception. It isnt just me. Im just the only person who cares little about being brashed online.

Im out on the thread (see previous post), if im being an asshole, i dont mean to be. Ive helped with the MTCSO proposal and respect all of the volunterrs.

I dont however, accept the total disregard for the concerns that people have.

You designed a business card for us with a QR code that would take folks to our blog.
1. For that I am grateful. Thank you.
2. That happened after we released 3.0 to the public and you were fully aware of what was our intention for what we intended to submit for public and commission consideration. Don’t act like we’re now ignoring concerns. You knew what it was about then.
3. Since the unsigned LE proposal was released and we didn’t endorse it or support it you have been consistently pushing that proposal on threads and criticizing both the MT CSO proposal and slandering both character and motivation of those of us who are involved in it.
Don’t pretend to respect us when all you’ve been posting lately about the proposal and participants has been to discredit the proposal and question member's motives.

That’s fine if you support a different approach to season structure and management. Petition the commission, make your case to the public, push for what you believe in, but don’t pretend that our proposal and group have suddenly changed or gotten untrustworthy. Everything is exactly the same as when you said you supported the proposal and us. That only changed after the LE proposal was made public. Why?

 

[DFS]

@Forkyfinder I used to come in guns a blazing when something was so obvious to me but not others. Sometimes I still do. It doesn’t do any good, these guys put a lot of time and effort into this and they have good intentions. Anything would be better than what we are doing now for mule deer. In my region you have to look at the facts. Buck to doe ratio is good population is sustainable even if it’s mainly on private, the majority of hunters like to hunt during the rut per fwp survey and they value opportunity. It’s a tough sell for any changes outside of the hunt talk crew. The only cold hard stat fwp has to acknowledge is that nonresident harvest is exceeding resident, I doubt they care.

 

[Forkyfinder]

You designed a business card for us with a QR code that would take folks to our blog.
1. For that I am grateful. Thank you.
2. That happened after we released 3.0 to the public and you were fully aware of what was our intention for what we intended to submit for public and commission consideration. Don’t act like we’re now ignoring concerns. You knew what it was about then.
3. Since the unsigned LE proposal was released and we didn’t endorse it or support it you have been consistently pushing that proposal on threads and criticizing both the MT CSO proposal and slandering both character and motivation of those of us who are involved in it.
Don’t pretend to respect us when all you’ve been posting lately about the proposal and participants has been to discredit the proposal and question member's motives.

That’s fine if you support a different approach to season structure and management. Petition the commission, make your case to the public, push for what you believe in, but don’t pretend that our proposal and group have suddenly changed or gotten untrustworthy. Everything is exactly the same as when you said you supported the proposal and us. That only changed after the LE proposal was made public. Why?

Read this with a neutral position. Youre assuming a lot about my own character - despite the fact that i have consistently respected your efforts - even though i feel theres influence on the results of them.

Your proposal got dramatically worse with each revision. Making archery earlier was a major disappointment for me, personally, in r3.0. I also had multiple conversations with people who take rifle gen hunting a lot more serious than i do (i take all my pto for archery and dont find a lot of joy in rifle elk gen hunting in MT, perhaps i grew up spoiled) had real concerns with what mule deer hunting would do to public land elk hunting in montana. THEY (as in a variety of people some you know and most you dont) convinced me that on the whole this would be a boone for a lot of the problems we (as in the state of MT) already have. Primarily - elk congregating on private land. I am also concerned that increased season length will compound the existing BMA funding issues that exist. I also feel that making antelope opener with mule deer season already open is a lot different than the current arrangement. Maybe im wrong, but it isnt "certain" to say the least.

Im responding because i respect you, and your contributions, Gerald. I can respect you and feel that you have been influenced. They arent mutually exclusive.