Montana General Season Structure Proposal 3.0

[Forkyfinder]

Maybe instead of making the same assertions about incidental harvest of mule deer by antelope permit holders, and the “ruining” of elk hunting by opening a private land cow season early (both ridiculous IMO), you could sit down and draft a proposal for your thoughts. This would include the why/what/how they Art asked and you refused to answer.

Art and I have kicked a lot of rocks while talking mule deer management. I can guarantee you there are few folks in Montana who care more about mule deer than he does. When he asks questions, you’d be well served to entertain the discussion with him.

You didnt even read (or lack comprehension) of what i said.

Try again.

 

[El Jason]

You didnt even read (or lack comprehension) of what i said.

Try again.

Well, it’s clear you are the smartest guy in the room. Intellectually honest? Maybe not.

Like if incidental harvest is a concern - why is antelope not? Its been attempted to be explained away by lots of words and little logic. How will you stop people from hunting both seasons? Why are we ruining elk hunting by opening it earlier? What is going to come of elk hunting in every region not 6 or 7 after people chase deer around for 4 weeks? Ive heard it time and time again - elk are more sensitive to pressure than mule deer - but im supposed to believe hunting deer for weeks before them wont push them out early.

Tell us about this harvest impact by pronghorn hunters (who are limited in numbers).

 

[Forkyfinder]

Well, it’s clear you are the smartest guy in the room.

Tell us about this harvest impact by pronghorn hunters (who are limited in numbers).

Cow hunters in 410 were also limited, genius.

Dont bother engaging with me if youre not going to read what im saying.

 

[El Jason]

Cow hunters in 410 were also limited, genius.

Dont bother engaging with me if youre not going to read what im saying.

At the time the biggest impact to mule deer happened it was an unlimited youth hunt.

Quotas for B tags in 410 have been limited, but quite liberal.

 

[El Jason]

Dont bother engaging with me if youre not going to read what im saying.

Miscommunication is usually a two way street. Maybe not for you?

 

[Forkyfinder]

At the time the biggest impact to mule deer happened it was an unlimited youth hunt.

Quotas for B tags in 410 have been limited, but quite liberal.

4000 antelope hunters in r7. 1500 ish cow b tags in 410 that lead to the leading of mule deer.

No way the youth hunt had near the damage the cow hunters did.

 

[El Jason]

No way the youth hunt had near the damage the cow hunters did

The youth hunt was a cow hunt.

 

[Forkyfinder]

The youth hunt was a cow hunt.

Wouldnt that also time well with the shoulder season - especially the early aug 15 shoulder season - as much as that?

 

[El Jason]

Wouldnt that also time well with the shoulder season - especially the early aug 15 shoulder season - as much as that?

I have no idea what you are asking.

A youth with a general elk tag could kill a cow during the entire general season in 410 for several years in a row. In addition, a liberal number of permits were also issued for cows 410 at the same time. The impact to mule deer was significant.

 

[Forkyfinder]

The impact to mule deer was significant.

Exactly. And im not insane for expecting the same when prongorn hunters are also out.

At least from R - who certainly have access to a deer/elk combo tag.

 

[El Jason]

Exactly. And im not insane for expecting the same when prongorn hunters are also out.

At least from R - who certainly have access to a deer/elk combo tag.

Given the different habitat folks will focus on for pronghorn, I think it’s far less likely. Plus, during pronghorn season you aren’t shooting mule deer in the rut.

Surely you can acknowledge these are significant differences?

How many pronghorn are killed during deer season?

 

[Forkyfinder]

How many pronghorn are killed during deer season?

Not many. How many can hunt deer on opening day of antelope now?

Surely you can acknowledge these are significant differences?

There are. Surely the MTCSO could acknowledge the realities of having a deer tag during antelope opener that will have an effect? Couldnt you simply "fix" my whole issue by regulation - i.e. antelope permit holders may not hunt deer where their antelope permit is valid. I know why that wasnt on the table.

 

[El Jason]

Not many.

But they overlap by two weeks and have for decades. Maybe pronghorn and mule deer hunting aren’t as compatible as deer and elk.

 

[El Jason]

Not many. How many can hunt deer on opening day of antelope now?

There are. Surely the MTCSO could acknowledge the realities of having a deer tag during antelope opener that will have an effect?

No one can know for certain the affect. We can make educated guesses.

Couldnt you simply "fix" my whole issue by regulation - i.e. antelope permit holders may not hunt deer where their antelope permit is valid.

Why?

I know why that wasnt on the table.

Please, do tell.

 

[cgasner1]

Not many. How many can hunt deer on opening day of antelope now?

There are. Surely the MTCSO could acknowledge the realities of having a deer tag during antelope opener that will have an effect? Couldnt you simply "fix" my whole issue by regulation - i.e. antelope permit holders may not hunt deer where their antelope permit is valid. I know why that wasnt on the table.

My favorite weekend to deer hunt I killed these 3 bucks while everyone was looking for antelope.

 

[mtmuley]

My favorite weekend to deer hunt I killed these 3 bucks while everyone was looking for antelope.

Nice. Public general tags? mtmuley

 

[cgasner1]

Nice. Public general tags? mtmuley

Ya all public. It’s funny what happens when you’re more worried about filling your own tag than what everyone else is doing.

 

[mtmuley]

Ya all public. It’s funny what happens when you’re more worried about filling your own tag than what everyone else is doing.

Awesome. mtmuley

 

[antlerradar]

Why? If its lack of interest (cause every other states going to be open) - wheres the concern for unsold tags?

I think the biggest reason is mule deer hunting right now in the western Montana mountains sucks. If it didn't I would not see all the western Montana and Washington hunters in eastern Montana. The vast majority of hunters are not going to blow there vacation time hunting in the western MT mountains if they can not shoot an elk. Don't get me wrong, nothing would make me happier if the mountains of MT were just as big draw for mule deer as say regions G and H in WY. Would go a long way in solving the issues Montana has in both the west and the east. Not going to happen with our current season even if we go to LE.
Most NR hunting hunting western Montana are doing so with the elk/deer combo license. They are going to wait until elk opens to go hunting. If they do have extra vacation time they will likely spend it hunting mule deer in eastern MT before elk opens up. Not that I want to see them, but better mid Oct than mid Nov, which is what they are doing now. Having mule deer open up two and a half weeks earlier then elk will give Montana residents two and half weeks to hunt mule deer if they choose before most of the NR with combo tags even show up in MT. #puttingresidentsfirst.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I have no idea what you are asking.

A youth with a general elk tag could kill a cow during the entire general season in 410 for several years in a row. In addition, a liberal number of permits were also issued for cows 410 at the same time. The impact to mule deer was significant.

Exactly. And im not insane for expecting the same when prongorn hunters are also out.

At least from R - who certainly have access to a deer/elk combo tag.

You guys were specifically discussing unit 410 and the impact of elk hunters on mule deer vs. antelope hunters on deer.

@Forkyfinder, in the years @ElJason was referring to when there was unlimited youth cow hunting through the general season and @ 1000 cow elk permits/licenses through the general season, how many antelope licenses were given out for unit 410?