Montana Backcountry Units 150 151 280 316 first timer

[LowCountryBuckeye]

Also an ethics question, would you resonably be able to get an elk out before it spoils.

Let’s say you shoot one 8 miles in, you bone it out 220lbs, the rack 20lbs, your camp + rifle+ gear 25lbs.
That’s 265lbs. I’ve done 100lbs for 2.5 miles one way and it was brutal, my hiking speed went from 3mph to .5 mph and there was no way I could have gone back for another load. Let’s say you can do 90lbs you would have to do 3 trips, so 40 miles, 24 miles with that weight would take you at least 24 hours the remaining 16 would take maybe 5, so say 30 hours of hiking. If you just kill yourself and are in significantly better shape than anyone I’ve hunted with you might be able to do a pack out that far in 3 days. With two people on one elk you can do it in 2 trips move faster but it still 24 miles with 70lb packs. If you and your buddy are just animals you could do it in one 20+ hour day... maybe

Can you keep the meat from spoiling in September for that amount of time and are you ready for that kind of punishment. It might be doable but you definitely to think it through, also look at how far in you would be, 8 might not even get you in legally depending on the area you select.

I wouldn’t even think about it without horses.

Getting as much meat as possible out of there is definitely a concern and the primary reason we started discussing pack animals last week. Two of us are 100 percent committed to hunting elk next fall. We have two kore guys that say they are going, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they back out. Two guys hauling meat sounds much worse than 4.

Do you have suggestions about finding/scheduling a reliable packer? Is it as easy as a google search and a phone call? Are they all pretty much the same, or is it easy for an out of state first time hunter to get fleeced by someone with less than ideal ethics?

 

[Sytes]

Do you have suggestions about finding/scheduling a reliable packer? Is it as easy as a google search and a phone call? Are they all pretty much the same, or is it easy for an out of state first time hunter to get fleeced by someone with less than ideal ethics?

Google is your friend. Start calling. Try, <insert wilderness> drop camp hunts, Outfitter, etc. Ask questions.

Try the Forest Service office for the area of interest. Speak with the person involved with the outfitters for that area. S/he may share who within the packers of the area offer to pack game out.


The allure of the Wilderness is pretty amazing.

 

[BigHornRam]

I packed in to one of the the units you listed to mule deer hunt during the early rifle. It was an exceptionally hot time, highs around 85. A couple guys from Oregon shot a nice bull opening morning. By the end of the 2nd day they still had not got the entire bull back to their camp and they were completely done in. They still had over six miles from there to get it to the trailhead. No way was that elk salvageable to eat when it got back to their vehicle. The forest service guys that check camps for proper bear procedures had a field day with these two.

Be smart. Think about hunting in some easier country for your first western hunt. Good luck.

 

[BigHornRam]

Getting as much meat as possible out of there is definitely a concern and the primary reason we started discussing pack animals last week. Two of us are 100 percent committed to hunting elk next fall. We have two kore guys that say they are going, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they back out. Two guys hauling meat sounds much worse than 4.

Do you have suggestions about finding/scheduling a reliable packer? Is it as easy as a google search and a phone call? Are they all pretty much the same, or is it easy for an out of state first time hunter to get fleeced by someone with less than ideal ethics?

I've heard of a lot of horror stories. You definitely want to do thorough research if you go that route. Most of the good outfitters will not do drop camps. Sytes advice on where to search is good advice. Then make sure to call lots of references.

 

[Coop]

1: Are you prepared to hunt and make camp in Grizzly country? And I don't mean one every now and then, chances are that you WILL see bears in these units.
2: The elk in these areas (not sure on the Bob, but south central and sw MT) are a lot more quiet during the rut than they might be in other units that you could bow hunt during the rut.
3: If you do decide to go this route, make sure you have a paper map and compass, and know how to use them! OnX is great, but you never know when technology might fail, and you do not want to be stuck out there.
4: Amen on the ethics concerns...It can be hot in September, even in the backcountry, and if you can't get it out in a timely manner then it isn't worth it.

 

[Rifles And More]

My first time attempt.

PM me and we can talk about it more.

-Dustin

 

[Straight Arrow]

I do have experience back packing in the Appalachian Mountains but nothing above 3,000 ft.

Your backpacking experience will serve you well in hiking and camping, but be realistic about the elk hunting and meat retrieval. The Rocky Mountains of western USA are steep and hold elk in some remote difficult places. Maps and electronic scouting, together with images you may access on the internet, will display some amazing spots to excite you about getting out there, and you will undoubtedly have a great time, but just be realistic about far to go in and the challenge of the return trip out ... especially if you are successful in downing an elk.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Two of us are 100 percent committed to hunting elk next fall. We have two kore guys that say they are going, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they back out. Two guys hauling meat sounds much worse than 4.

I definitely sympathize with you here, set yourself up for success and make a plan that will allow you to hunt with two guys or even solo. Hunting elk in the Rockies has lots of variables to deal with and takes time to figure out. Weather can change dramatically from day to day, I have had it be 94 in the cabinets then snow 7 inches and be super cold, then be 90 again the next day. Breaking down an elk is a ton of work, it's not a whitetail, the first time you do it will leave you pretty beat up (also if you think you can do it in under 2 hours your first time with 2 guys you are kidding yourself) and you need to put some thought into how to cool meat in high temps. Backpack hunting also takes some figuring out if you haven't done it before, you will need to get your gear setup to 45lbs including rifle and optics. I think everyone, myself included overpacks the first couple of times they go, 2 years in you look back and think "why the hell did I ever think I needed a hatchet, 3 knifes, and 2 changes of clothes," 5 years in you think "why was I packing a full tent, jet boils are stupid heavy, that pad/sleeping bag I had sucked, who needs more than 1 extra pair of socks for 5 days'. I've probably cut 15-20lbs of weight from my first season hunting to last season, but I still have a ways to go.

My recommendation for a rifle hunt would be to come back in October, later and camping gets more technical earlier and meat care is tougher, pick a trail head that isn't located within 45min -1hr of Bozeman, Missoula, Helena, or Whitefish. Plan on hiking 4 miles in, this gets you out there but if weather turns, or something happens, or you just don't find elk you can bail to your truck and make a new plan. Also it gives you some wiggle room if you over or under pack. Research outfitters near where you end up hunting, just in case it turns out to be too much.

 

[Thomas11]

Those ratios are definitely intimidating. I had no idea the numbers would be that skewed. Where did you find those? It could be helpful if we decide to look at another unit.

U can get on Montana game and fish and look at herd objectives and latest populations. Units 150 ,151 showed like BuzzH said above 260 elk observed. That is a lot of country and it’s big country for very few elk. I’d have almost as much luck finding them in Alabama here! If you research the “bob” u will find most ppl don’t even see elk or find sign! Much less kill one. I’d say u could pick any other place and it would be better. There’s lots of units there over objective that you could have “the wilderness” experience in and have better elk hunting

 

[brownbear932008]

Your backpacking experience will serve you well in hiking and camping, but be realistic about the elk hunting and meat retrieval. The Rocky Mountains of western USA are steep and hold elk in some remote difficult places. Maps and electronic scouting, together with images you may access on the internet, will display some amazing spots to excite you about getting out there, and you will undoubtedly have a great time, but just be realistic about far to go in and the challenge of the return trip out ... especially if you are successful in downing an elk.

Lots of good advice given to you in this thread. I have tons of hiking experience in those mountains I live in the heart of them and to even think they begin to fall in the same category as the wilderness areas you have named is a mistake my opinion. I've done both and the rockys kick my a## every time I go.
There is a reason the state allows rifle hunting during the rut there. Low success rates and low animal numbers. If you want a great experience I say it is cool country or at least 316 is but don't expect to take an animal. There are much better areas in Montana that have the same wilderness feel with tons more elk.

 

[Thomas11]

So I looked at harvest statistics outta curosity. Toprut shows 79 harvested with 70 of those being bulls for 2016 outta 400+ hunters for unit 150. How is it possible to harvest that many bulls if the population is only 200-300 elk with a bull to cow ratio of 6/100 and only less than 10 bulls Observed in latest estimate. I’m guessing these harvest/success are off? But they show similar success for previous yrs as well

 

[BuzzH]

Pardon my French, but are you f'ing kidding with this? No way FWP is that retarded....I hope.

No, I'm not kidding...its disgraceful to say the least. What we have is "opportunity" catching up with 1 million people living in Montana now, and 11+ week general seasons.

The data I have is in pdf format and I'll gladly email it to anyone that wants to take a look, pm me with your email address.

Its also amazing that when I talk to younger people, or people that just moved to Montana, its obvioius somebody is telling them a pack of lies about elk in the Bob Marshall. I've heard from lots of them say that, "There never were many elk in the Bob"...bull-f'ing-chit. The Bob used to be a premier elk hunting destination, and the pdf I have shows the observed population of elk was up in the neighborhood of 1200-1600 elk in the 80's. They observed more elk in 1970 than now!!! The problem is, there aren't many guys like me around that know what it was like in the 80's and if you recently moved to Montana and didn't see it back in the day, you assume the current crap populations are "normal". The MTFWP banks on people not being able to read a graph or not having hunted long enough to know the difference. That, and their bullchit mantra of pointing to a 30 year old survey of hunters that say opportunity is more important than sound wildlife management.

I would argue that the habitat is better now than anytime prior to 1988, yet the elk are in the tank from a population standpoint, as well as bull to cow ratio's and cow/calf ratios.

A good friend of mine summed it up best with a couple comments regarding elk and deer management in Montana:

1. "Any good animal killed in Montana is not because of the MTFWP, its in spite of the MTFWP"
2. "If not for private property in Montana, there wouldn't be shit left"

Again, anyone that wants the pdf, shoot me a pm and I'll get to it later today.

 

[BuzzH]

So I looked at harvest statistics outta curosity. Toprut shows 79 harvested with 70 of those being bulls for 2016 outta 400+ hunters for unit 150. How is it possible to harvest that many bulls if the population is only 200-300 elk with a bull to cow ratio of 6/100 and only less than 10 bulls Observed in latest estimate. I’m guessing these harvest/success are off? But they show similar success for previous yrs as well

I've been pointing this kind of crap out for years on this board...nothing jives with population estimates and harvest estimates. Yet, some still say there is not a need for mandatory harvest reporting and they trust the MTFWP.

The area I hunt, according to the numbers provided the harvest exceeds the number of available bulls every year. I'm still trying to reconcile killing 86 out of 74 available bulls??

If you're going to guess/lie, at least make the numbers believable.

A friend of mine sent an email that made me laugh a few weeks ago (with the attached elk population data for 140/150)...he said he drove by the MTFWP building and smelled rags burning, it was the MTFWP's pants on fire.

 

[teej89]

I saw the title and saw it ended in "First Timer", probably not the best idea. Plausible, yes, but best... there's way better units. We were 2-6 miles in from the truck every day last year with bows and ended up seeing/hearing bulls almost every day in a general unit in September.

If you were going to learn to swim would you test it out in the ocean first or maybe a 3ft zone in a pool?

 

[Sytes]

I've been pointing this kind of crap out for years on this board...nothing jives with population estimates and harvest estimates. Yet, some still say there is not a need for mandatory harvest reporting and they trust the MTFWP.

The area I hunt, according to the numbers provided the harvest exceeds the number of available bulls every year. I'm still trying to reconcile killing 86 out of 74 available bulls??

If you're going to guess/lie, at least make the numbers believable.

A friend of mine sent an email that made me laugh a few weeks ago (with the attached elk population data for 140/150)...he said he drove by the MTFWP building and smelled rags burning, it was the MTFWP's pants on fire.

I do not know for a fact nor would I be able to confirm... though the "local" breakfast counter chatter suggests this is Outfitter driven business promotion... All good fun to those wanting to craft rumors and yep, I'm guilty to spreading this rumor. I kinda believe there is some truth to it...

 

[Thomas11]

I've been pointing this kind of crap out for years on this board...nothing jives with population estimates and harvest estimates. Yet, some still say there is not a need for mandatory harvest reporting and they trust the MTFWP.

The area I hunt, according to the numbers provided the harvest exceeds the number of available bulls every year. I'm still trying to reconcile killing 86 out of 74 available bulls??

If you're going to guess/lie, at least make the numbers believable.

A friend of mine sent an email that made me laugh a few weeks ago (with the attached elk population data for 140/150)...he said he drove by the MTFWP building and smelled rags burning, it was the MTFWP's pants on fire.

Lol!! Yea I can’t make the math add up on that! Your right they severely contradict each other!

 

[BigHornRam]

The Bob is big country with lots of timber. The elk move around a lot. There are elk if you know where to look. Last time I was there, the elk kept me up all night bulging their heads off. Had to whistle at a bull to keep it from running me over. He thought I was another bull trying to steal his cows. Get off the trails where 99% of the hunting is done and you will see elk. Find a good spot and glass. I ran into a guy from West Virginia that put in about a 25 mile day all on the trails, and didn't hear or see an elk all day. I said that wasn't the case for me and just then an elk bugled. I said You hear that? He smiled, and said yeah. He was too busy covering ground and not hunting.
You will likely see grizzlies there as well. Make sure to follow all the bear aware rules, you likely will not have a problem.

 

[LowCountryBuckeye]

Thank you to everyone for the advice and information. There certainly seems to be a consensus that this would be a big challenge. We have talked and we are going to look into a guide much more seriously than we were planning. Though I have to admit. The idea of heading out alone (or with one friend) into that large of a wilderness is still very appealing.

Our original plan A was the hunt we have been discussing. Plan B was a similar self guided hunt but during 3rd rifle season in Colorado.

I do bow hunt for whitetails, but sitting in a tree stand on 75 acres of private or a couple thousand acres of public land hasn't at all prepared me for trying to bow hunt elk. So I think rifle gives me the best chance at a harvest, however slim that chance remains.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

The idea of heading out alone (or with one friend) into that large of a wilderness is still very appealing.

There are 16 Designated Wilderness areas in MT, and there are a ton of "little w" wilderness areas all over the western part of the state... Colorado is a good option too, although I would argue way more competition and you are more restricted on dates.

 

[Addicting]

Also keep in mind that early season is subject to fires. There were some pretty serious fires just south of there last year. A lot of hunts had to be modified due to fire conditions and smoke.