MLB

[Southern Elk]

I grew up watching and loving baseball. I still love the game itself, but MLB is will slowly kill itself off. I've tried watching, but unfortunately due to blackouts, I need to pay an arm and a leg to watch my local team on cable.
The Regional Sports Network TV deals have alienated an inordinate amount of fans. Just ask anyone from Iowa on here how difficult it is to watch the team they root for.
Until MLB forces the teams into a national television deal to stabilize and standardize the offerings of games, that won't be fixed. Also, I know the Dodger, Yankee, Mets, and Red Sox fans here won't agree, but a hard salary cap and a minimum spending floor are in place, the league will continue to suffer.
It's anticipated that after the '26 season there will be another lockout, potentially (and hopefully) long enough and important enough to facilitate major changes, like a salary cap.

Also, the pitch clock speeds up the game a little bit, but the pitchers and hitters find ways around it, to a point. They'll get it taken out in the next collective bargaining agreement. The larger bases are a gimmick. So is limiting the throws over to first. I'm all for increased action in the game, but handicapping the pitchers to increase movement on the basepaths isn't the answer.

Analytics have ground the gameplay to a screeching halt, and will continue to as we go forward.

I pretty well washed my hands with baseball when I saw Kevin Cash pull Blake Snell in the 6th inning of Game 6 of the WS because the analytics, not the player performance, told him to.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you on most of this. My reply was in response to you saying that the WNBA could overtake MLB. That would never happen in a million years.

 

[Wild Bill]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you on most of this. My reply was in response to you saying that the WNBA could overtake MLB. That would never happen in a million years.

Yeah, my bad. I got ahead of my skis. WNBA won't surpass MLB in viewership by the numbers, but one of the two is growing and the other is slowly dying. Also, I don't think that the World Series rating are a fully truthful measure of MLB's popularity.

I'm far more of a pissed off baseball fan than any kind of WNBA/NBA stan.

Now I’m just going to vent about baseball in general. Not aimed at anyone.

I would argue that the article doesn't really lay out is the future of MLB and its viewers. As I stated earlier, MLB has put on a master class on how to alienate fans. RSN deals, blackouts, social media restrictions on sharing content, starting the season over seas in the middle of the night, etc. etc. The average MLB fans are older white guys. I don't care about the racial aspect of it, but you look at the age demos and the proof is in the pudding. Younger people, and society in general don't have the bandwidth to sit down at watch major league baseball games. Even with the pitch clock and keeping batters in the box and pitchers have to face a certain number of batters before they come out, you still can't barely get through a game in under 3 hours. Who wants to sit around on a nice summer night indoors and watch both starting pitchers go 5 1/3 innings before the managers turn it into a revolving door of 14 relievers between both teams that are trying to blow gas past hitters that have no intention of putting the ball in to play, unless it's over the fence? The shear amount of games makes each game (seem) less important and drives the interest down. That on top of the slow pace of play goes against everything younger folks want to watch.

Analytics has also driven the game to the 3 true outcomes (strikeout, walk, or HR) and the game has become unwatchable (if you can even access it). You used to be valuable if you could hit .300 and get on base. Now it's almost a detriment unless you're popping 25+ homers to go with it.

Starting pitchers used to be household names. Now they're all pushed to the edge and managers have to try and squeeze the most juice they can before their arms explode, which happens inevitably to almost all of them. Then they get TJ and just turn then into relievers and send them back out to do the same thing, just for even shorter amounts of innings.

And then there is payroll...


The nerds and accountants have ruined major league baseball, as far as I can tell. Unless there are major changes (salary cap and floor), the playing field will never be level, and all the mid to low level teams know it, so instead of trying to actively compete and win they shift their focus to more attainable goals like shoring up the accounting to make as much as they possibly can by driving their payrolls into the dirt and putting a crap product on the field. But, getting to the point of a salary cap and floor isn't going to come without blood. Tons of insiders suspect the looming '26 lockout could cost the entire season. The two sides are just so far apart.

I could go on for hours about this if I get a coupla beers in me, but nobody wants to hear or read that.

Also a disclaimer, I grew up a Twins fan and spent a handful of years actively cheering for the Rockies while I lived in CO, so I've been cheering for a couple of the worst ownership groups in the league. The Twins just a couple years ago broke the longest active playoff drought in any of the major sports, and won a wild card series and what did ownership do to ride that momentum? They announced a couple weeks after the WS ended that they'd be slashing payroll for the next season to get the accounting right. I know I'm damaged.

End of rant!

 

[Irrelevant]

so I've been cheering for a couple of the worst ownership groups in the league. The Twins just a couple years ago broke the longest active playoff drought in any of the major sports, and won a wild card series and what did ownership do to ride that momentum? They announced a couple weeks after the WS ended that they'd be slashing payroll for the next season to get the accounting right. I know I'm damaged.

Every Mariners fan: "Hold my beer."

 

[Oak]

Wow, you're pretty committed to your position, @Wild Bill. I wholeheartedly agree with you that MLB could do a far better job of providing television access to their product. I think that they have recognized that and are working on it to some extent.

While you might not like the way MLB is heading, I think you are in the minority. MLB realized that if they continued to cater to the "older white guys," the game was definitely going to die on the vine. They took the steps you mentioned like pitch clock, limiting 1st base throws, stepping out of the hitter's box, etc., to address the length of the game, and it worked! Last year, the average time of game was 2:36.

I'm an older white guy, too, who has watched since 1980. I like the way the game is going. Your rant sounds a little like the "old man yells at clouds" meme.

This suggests that overall, the MLB fanbase doesn't agree with your perceptions of the game.

MLB Finishes 2024 Season With Highest Attendance in Seven Years

NATIONAL VIEWERSHIP INCREASES ACROSS MLB TV PARTNERS Double Digit Growth in 18-34 Audience Achieved by ESPN, FS1 and MLB Network MLB.TV SETS NEW RECORD FOR STREAMING MINUTES WATCHED 28 Most-Watched Games on MLB.TV Have Occurred Since New Rules Were Instituted Mets Postseason Clincher Ranks as...

www.mlb.com

 

[Oak]

I wholeheartedly agree with you that MLB could do a far better job of providing television access to their product. I think that they have recognized that and are working on it to some extent.

I should clarify that I'm certain I sent at least a few all caps texts to baseball fan friends last year lamenting the MLB's failure to get their product to the fans.

 

[Irrelevant]

I like the way the game is going. Your rant sounds a little like the "old man yells at clouds" meme.

This suggests that overall, the MLB fanbase doesn't agree with your perceptions of the game.

MLB Finishes 2024 Season With Highest Attendance in Seven Years

NATIONAL VIEWERSHIP INCREASES ACROSS MLB TV PARTNERS Double Digit Growth in 18-34 Audience Achieved by ESPN, FS1 and MLB Network MLB.TV SETS NEW RECORD FOR STREAMING MINUTES WATCHED 28 Most-Watched Games on MLB.TV Have Occurred Since New Rules Were Instituted Mets Postseason Clincher Ranks as...

www.mlb.com

Of course you like it, you're a Braves fan. Notice where your team is on the spending chart? 8 of 30, you have an elevated chance of playing better than the majority of the teams out there. Almost every other major sport has some form of salary cap to promote competitive play.

 

[SwaggyD]

Of course you like it, you're a Braves fan. Notice where your team is on the spending chart? 8 of 30, you have an elevated chance of playing better than the majority of the teams out there. Almost every other major sport has some form of salary cap to promote competitive play.

The whole AL Central is in the bottom 13.

 

[Southern Elk]

Of course you like it, you're a Braves fan. Notice where your team is on the spending chart? 8 of 30, you have an elevated chance of playing better than the majority of the teams out there. Almost every other major sport has some form of salary cap to promote competitive play.

Never thought of it this way, because I’ve been a Braves fan my whole life. It balances out being a Saints fan. At least you aren’t a band wagon Dodgers fan.

 

[Oak]

Of course you like it, you're a Braves fan. Notice where your team is on the spending chart? 8 of 30, you have an elevated chance of playing better than the majority of the teams out there. Almost every other major sport has some form of salary cap to promote competitive play.

That's a very valid point, but, to quote Collin Raye, I was a Braves fan even through the rotten years.

If you look at the 2024 playoff teams on that salary chart above, they are ranked:

1. LAD
2. NYM
3. PHI
4. NYY
7. HOU
8. ATL
10. SDP
15. BAL
19. DET
20. KCR
22. MIL
25. CLE

There is enough parity that any one of those teams could have made it to the WS.

I'd rather see MLB encourage better ownership/management than to go to a salary cap.

 

[Southern Elk]

That's a very valid point, but, to quote Collin Raye, I was a Braves fan even through the rotten years.

First thing that popped into my mind. I remember watching Dale Murphy wearing the baby blue uniforms.

 

[SwaggyD]

That's a very valid point, but, to quote Collin Raye, I was a Braves fan even through the rotten years.

If you look at the 2024 playoff teams on that salary chart above, they are ranked:

1. LAD
2. NYM
3. PHI
4. NYY
7. HOU
8. ATL
10. SDP
15. BAL
19. DET
20. KCR
22. MIL
25. CLE

There is enough parity that any one of those teams could have made it to the WS.

I'd rather see MLB encourage better ownership/management than to go to a salary cap.

Using 2025 payroll with 2024 results doesn't make a lot of sense in my head.

Here is 2024:

2024 MLB Team Salary Payroll Tracker

A real-time look at the 2024 salary payroll totals for each MLB team..

www.spotrac.com

 

[Oak]

Using 2025 payroll with 2024 results doesn't make a lot of sense in my head.

Here is 2024:
View attachment 364556

2024 MLB Team Salary Payroll Tracker

A real-time look at the 2024 salary payroll totals for each MLB team..

www.spotrac.com

Fair. Then we have:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
14.
20.
21.
22.
24.
26.

 

[SwaggyD]

Fair. Then we have:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
14.
20.
21.
22.
24.
26.

If we just look at the championship series, we have:
1.
2.
3.
24.

 

[Oak]

If we just look at the championship series, we have:
1.
2.
3.
24.

If we just look at the champion we have: 3

Anyone remember who represented the NL in the 2023 WS? Arizona, #22 that year. Point is, teams can be competitive with lower salaries. General management is just as important as bankroll.

 

[SwaggyD]

If we just look at the champion we have: 3

Anyone remember who represented the NL in the 2023 WS? Arizona, #22 that year. Point is, teams can be competitive with lower salaries. General management is just as important as bankroll.

So is health.

 

[SwaggyD]

The team with the best players doesn't always win, but having the best players certainly increases your chances of doing so.

 

[seeth07]

If we just look at the champion we have: 3

Anyone remember who represented the NL in the 2023 WS? Arizona, #22 that year. Point is, teams can be competitive with lower salaries. General management is just as important as bankroll.

While true, the argument to be made is about team being able to be competitive over a duration with lower salaries which is an extreme challenge.

I know the Brew Crew well is it is probably the best example of this. Their management and ability to find and craft and raise ball players up through the minors has to likely be one of the best in the big leagues. These players get continually tossed into the Majors and shine and make the team at least competitive for what has been quite a long stretch now but they struggle to keep these stars around. They just simply can't afford them because they can't compete with other offers they are receiving. And it only makes them competitive, not enough to really compete well enough at the end to actually make the WS.

 

[Wild Bill]

General management is just as important as bankroll.

And more often than not those GMs are being told to scale back their payrolls and try to win as cheap as possible because they know their only shot at outlasting teams like the Dodgers or Yankees that by sheer spending have more higher talent players, is simply catching lightning in a bottle. If you're going to win with lightning in a bottle, why do it writing big checks?

 

[Wild Bill]

Oak is having to defend all angles here .

I just want better baseball. Better baseball comes from better owners. I don't think we get better owners, as a collection, any time soon.

I hope the Twins can sell to someone who gives a damn about winning.

 

[Irrelevant]

That's a very valid point, but, to quote Collin Raye, I was a Braves fan even through the rotten years.

Again... hold my beer.

The Mariners started in 1977, they have had 7 total "good" years in that 48 year period. '95-2002
We have active members of HT that weren't born the last time the Mariners were good.