Load Development in a Time of Scarcity

[Addicting]

Chasing Itty bitty groups can get pointless for a hunting rifle. mtmuley

And it’s pointless to reload if you only have a hunting rifle that gets shot 5 times a year.

Need something to do during the off season to keep you shooting.

 

[mtmuley]

And it’s pointless to reload if you only have a hunting rifle that gets shot 5 times a year.

Need something to do during the off season to keep you shooting.

All my rifles have a known load. I try not to change up my hunting loads if I can help it. mtmuley

 

[Potsie]

All my rifles have a known load. I try not to change up my hunting loads if I can help it. mtmuley

So you don't shoot for fun, or practice in the off season? And please don't take this as me being combative. You're one of the guys that I would like to pick their brains as I try and level up.

For me, it's not just a hunting rifle, it's a learning tool. I will probably never shoot at an animal more than 400 - 500 yards away, at those distances the PRC does nothing that my 7RM can't do. Will I shoot steel much farther than that, absolutely. I've got a relatively cheap .308 that I learned on, and I've gotten about as good of groups out of it as possible, now it's time to take the next step up. Which is why I bought this rifle, and why my reloading game is under close scrutiny.

If after 8 - 10 years I've reached the end of the service life of that barrel, cool. That means I had 1500 - 2000 (or whatever number it is) rounds of fun along the way.

 

[mtmuley]

So you don't shoot for fun, or practice in the off season? And please don't take this as me being combative. You're one of the guys that I would like to pick their brains as I try and level up.

For me, it's not just a hunting rifle, it's a learning tool. I will probably never shoot at an animal more than 400 - 500 yards away, at those distances the PRC does nothing that my 7RM can't do. Will I shoot steel much farther than that, absolutely. I've got a relatively cheap .308 that I learned on, and I've gotten about as good of groups out of it as possible, now it's time to take the next step up. Which is why I bought this rifle, and why my reloading game is under close scrutiny.

If after 8 - 10 years I've reached the end of the service life of that barrel, cool. That means I had 1500 - 2000 (or whatever number it is) rounds of fun along the way.

I shoot a lot during the off season. I know what my rifles like and that's what I feed them. mtmuley

 

[Don Fischer]

I have only tried the ladder test a few time's and won't waste my time with it again in this life. I pick the powder that gives me the most velocity. Then start midway between max and min loads and shoot three shot groups going up .5grs at a time. Has always worked for me!

 

[cahunter805]

Kind of like “Love in the Time of Cholera” but totally different.

I’m about to start load development on my .300 PRC, and the scarcity of components has me a little spooked. The last time I did a full work-up any and all components we’re easy off the shelf items.

I’ve got 100 brand new ADG brass, ~500 Mag rifle primers, soon will have about (100) 215 gr Berger VLD, and 2 lbs of H1000. My concern is if I do what worked for me last time (multiple ladders with different powders/bullets/primers) changing one variable at a time I’ll be out of freedom seeds and freedoms dust before I can even smell Spring Bear season.

So here’s my plan, please pick it apart.

Step 1. Find the lands (bullet in a case with a drop of Loctite) then seat .015 off the lands on a 10 shot, single round per charge, ladder test. Using a buddy’s chronograph I’ll find my velocity nodes to drill down on. (Round count 12 - 2 sighters)

Step 2: Shoot a 3 round per charge ladder test + and - 1 grain around the upper velocity node. (Round count 24 - 28 depending on the size of the node.)

Step 3: Shoot a 3 shot seating depth test from at the lands to .030 off, every .005. (Round Count 18)

Fingers crossed, I hope to have a fairly well developed load in ~54 - 58 rounds, leaving me 40 - 45 for practice and 2 rounds for my bear tag.

Am I pushing it? Seeing anything I can cut out? The round and the rifle are way above my shooting abilities, so I’m looking forward to honing my skills - at least once components are available.

Here is what I would do. Find the lands. Load your test at .020 off.
Load a ladder starting at 76gr up to 80.5gr or 81gr. The standard node with H1000/215s is around 78gr.
Find your node. Take pictures of the target and come back and post it.
From that data you can load 3 shot groups around the node and test it at 300-500 yards. Once you decide on the powder charge if need be some simple seating depth tests can be done. If it’s already under MOA I’d suggest loading 10-15 rounds and testing drops and call it done.

 

[Potsie]

So here’s my first run at finding the velocity nodes. Wind was 10 - 20 mph from 4:30 behind me, with slight right to left, 450 yards. This is all in brand new ADG brass, CCI 250 primers, H-1000, and Berger 215 gr seated 0.030” off the lands (COAL 3.710”)

1. 76.0 gr - 2824 fps
2. 76.5 gr - 2842 fps
3. 77.0 gr - 2867 fps
4. 77.5 gr - 2879 fps
5. 78.0 gr - 2898 fps
6. 78.5 gr - 2911 fps
7. 79.0 gr - 2930 fps
8. 79.5 gr - 2943 fps
9. 80.0 gr - 2983 fps
10. 80.5 gr - 3030 fps - crater primer



Bottom left I managed to put my sighter (factory Hornady 212 gr) and shot #2 in the same hole.

My plan is to explore that node around shots 7 and 8. I’m thinking work up 3 shot groups at 78.2, 79.1, 79.4, and 79.7 grains of powder.

The bad news about this is I neglected to measure my magazine box, and I’m pretty sure if I load at 0.030” off the lands I’m going to be too long for my magazine. So if that’s the case, my seating depth will be just deep enough to fit…

Any advise? @Wind Gypsy @VikingsGuy @Addicting @mtmuley @cahunter805

 

[devon deer]

Blimey, unless you are a target shooter why do this?
I see this a lot in the UK, the hunter trying to achieve the 'clover leaf group' at 100 yards, half the time they couldn't hit a barn door, so blame the rifle and cartridge.
I always say to them 'the animal doesn't have a clover leaf heart, stop chasing, get hunting!'

I started to use Barnes copper, at around $100/50 I can't afford to do ladder tests.
Factory at about $100/20 (measure a factory round, can be a shortcut)
For me, I don't shoot at maximum load, and back off the lands around 30thou.
Works for me.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Addicting]

What barrel break in did you do? If those are the first 12 down the tube I wouldn’t trust that data enough to any serious load development. If you have 20 or so down the tube prior to this than the barrel is pretty consistent to #7 I would load a 3 shot at #6 and do seating depth.

 

[Potsie]

What barrel break in did you do? If those are the first 12 down the tube I wouldn’t trust that data enough to any serious load development. If you have 20 or so down the tube prior to this than the barrel is pretty consistent to #7 I would load a 3 shot at #6 and do seating depth.

Yes, barrel break-in from the manufacturer is complete these were shots #61 - 71 down the tube.

 

[VikingsGuy]

So here’s my first run at finding the velocity nodes. Wind was 10 - 20 mph from 4:30 behind me, with slight right to left, 450 yards. This is all in brand new ADG brass, CCI 250 primers, H-1000, and Berger 215 gr seated 0.030” off the lands (COAL 3.710”)

1. 76.0 gr - 2824 fps
2. 76.5 gr - 2842 fps
3. 77.0 gr - 2867 fps
4. 77.5 gr - 2879 fps
5. 78.0 gr - 2898 fps
6. 78.5 gr - 2911 fps
7. 79.0 gr - 2930 fps
8. 79.5 gr - 2943 fps
9. 80.0 gr - 2983 fps
10. 80.5 gr - 3030 fps - crater primer

View attachment 215331

Bottom left I managed to put my sighter (factory Hornady 212 gr) and shot #2 in the same hole.

My plan is to explore that node around shots 7 and 8. I’m thinking work up 3 shot groups at 78.2, 79.1, 79.4, and 79.7 grains of powder.

The bad news about this is I neglected to measure my magazine box, and I’m pretty sure if I load at 0.030” off the lands I’m going to be too long for my magazine. So if that’s the case, my seating depth will be just deep enough to fit…

Any advise? @Wind Gypsy @VikingsGuy @Addicting @mtmuley @cahunter805

Nothing really jumps out at me on the fps progression, but if it was mine I would probably load 3 each at 79.1, 79.2, 79.3, 79.4 and 79.5 and see how they look. I would do it on a low wind day at 200y and also look at 3 shot groups in addition to SD/ES.

While I would typically set -0.5gn below 80.5 as my max load - given that it was probably fairly cool/cold in March, I would probably set 79.5 as my max now (giving me a little room for error for warmer weather). If I felt the need to push beyond that I would work up from 79.0gn on a warm/hot day.

 

[Addicting]

but if it was mine I would probably load 3 each at 79.1, 79.2, 79.3, 79.4 and 79.5 and see how they look.

In that big of a case .1 increments is a waste of resources. He should be good to start seating depth and verify ES on a group.

 

[mtmuley]

In that big of a case .1 increments is a waste of resources. He should be good to start seating depth and verify ES on a group.

Beat me to it. mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

In that big of a case .1 increments is a waste of resources. He should be good to start seating depth and verify ES on a group.

I want to see a flat spot in the fps curve as a place to focus my development and not seeing that yet - so maybe go 79.0, 79.2, 79.4 to save a few rounds if you are really short. For me, the goal is to find a relatively charge insensitive spot along the continuum before tweaking other stuff - and often for hunting load no tweaking is even needed after you find it. But to each their own. YMMV. Live and let live. Que sera sera.

 

[Addicting]

I want to see a flat spot in the fps curve as a place to focus my development and not seeing that yet - so maybe go 79.0, 79.2, 79.4 to save a few rounds if you are really short. For me, the goal is to find a relatively charge insensitive spot along the continuum before tweaking other stuff - and often for hunting load no tweaking is even needed after you find it. But to each their own. YMMV. Live and let live. Que sera sera.

What you posted is my normal go to method up to 30-06 parent case. The big magnums take a lot more umph to see differences and are more forgiving. Personally, I would of gone .3 but IMO the results he got with .5 are more than fine for a hunting load.

@mtmuley your the magnum expert, I will default this to you.

 

[noharleyyet]

I'm tinkering with a couple of calibers, one due to a sudden sticky bolt, the other due to an 'ain't broke but I'm gonna fix' brain worm.

 

[VikingsGuy]

What you posted is my normal go to method up to 30-06 parent case. The big magnums take a lot more umph to see differences and are more forgiving. Personally, I would of gone .3 but IMO the results he got with .5 are more than fine for a hunting load.

@mtmuley your the magnum expert, I will default this to you.

Fair point, my only “magnum” is a 300WSM and it behaved fairly typically. Never had need to shoot bigger.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'd load 5-10 up at 79.0 or 79.2 at a seating depth that fits your mag box and see how they shoot. If you shoot a MOA or smaller 5 shot group and velocity isn't all over the place I'd call it done. Trying to get that list tiny bit of tune and group size isn't going to help you get more impacts - food for thought -> https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/06/09/how-much-does-it-matter-overall-summary/

If it shoots sufficiently tight and you must tinker more maybe do it with seating depth. I would still expect your barrel to speed up some and I also think that you'll see an increase in velocity/pressure with your second firing of that brass if you give it a minimum shoulder bump back so picking something that has a little buffer for pressure increases to come is good.

 

[mtmuley]

@mtmuley your the magnum expert, I will default this to you.

I have never personally seen any advantage to moving a powder charge a tenth of a grain in big cased magnums. This in 7mm, .300 and .338 RUMS. Waste of time and components. And barrel life. In my opinion. mtmuley

 

[jejack26]

Reloading is fun, chasing small groups is fun.but the internet got everybody convinced they need to do what primarily only bench rest shooters used to focus on.