LO Battle Ahead?

[Forkyfinder]

Well Buzz does this going home to Montana so he must have been feeling guilty and wanted to make sure Wyoming had the same policy?

Lets hope so!

The only group less deserving of tags than landowners are former residents. But im here for it. If it benefits me.

Thats the theme of the thread, right?

 

[TOGIE]

This helps back up your claim:

View attachment 375189


View attachment 375190

A bit tongue in cheek it was to be sure. But I truly am amazed at how many big bulls residents seem to have hanging up in that state that they probably have higher chances to go get nearly every year compared to the resident of any other western state.

 

[SAJ-99]

That’s a fair point, but so do nontransferable landowner tags- which Wyoming currently has.

I do not expect a large increase due to them becoming transferable (premium tags are almost fully subscribed already), but I would absolutely anticipate improved access.

Like I said, it's a fine line to walk, and ultimately the voters decide. I think your expectation of no "large increase" is just a guess and probably wrong in the long term. It's supply and demand. WY is already selling all it can of $2,000 Specials. The reality of what we see today is it becomes a money game and the average Joe gets pushed out. It is happening everywhere, be it elk tags or single family homes. I think that societal change is the core of the fight against it.

The fact that you seem to want Unit-wide tags is something I have to work through. The purpose of the LO tag is compensate for game damage (which I agree is inflated) but I find it hard to justify it getting used anywhere in the unit.

 

[seeth07]

A bit tongue in cheek it was to be sure. But I truly am amazed at how many big bulls residents seem to have hanging up in that state that they probably have higher chances to go get nearly every year compared to the resident of any other western state.

The only experience I have with this is a resident hunter that stopped and looked at the elk I was glassing and goes "yeah that is a nice bull with that group but he is too far away to be worth going after". It was very likely a 300" plus bull while we were antelope hunting in October.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think Outfitters and Tag Services optimize tag prices for the most money, not the land owner.
Most of the land owners I've seen get paid 1/3 to 1/4 of the price that the Outfitters then charge.
They seem to be pleased with the residual cash or have no idea what the max price is that they could get.


I know this isnt all, but a lot of the tags I see are your mom & pops, dont know anything better, and dont mind some cash flashed by Outfitters who then go crazy with it.

Again I am not saying you're wrong because you're around different parts of the state and probably have different experiences from me.

To your point though, the Hanks are a rare breed. I'm getting another unit 40 antelope tag this year for a 50K acre ranch that never gets hunted. This will be my third one. I am very lucky and this person giving it to me is the salt of the earth.

It can vary. If a LO only got 1/3 of the value then they are getting screwed.

I get these last-minute emails every year. This was from last year. It looks like in some cases the prices are disaggregated, which keeps the outfitter from screwing the LO.

 

[TOGIE]

The only experience I have with this is a resident hunter that stopped and looked at the elk I was glassing and goes "yeah that is a nice bull with that group but he is too far away to be worth going after". It was very likely a 300" plus bull while we were antelope hunting in October.

I do fully trust and believe to be true when Buzz says, to the effect, that if there was a state with better elk hunting and better elk hunting for residents he'd be living there yesterday.

 

[Archer86]

The biggest thing I get out of these threads is how many wish they could live in wyoming or any western state that has good hunting but dont. So they wish for rules changes they think might benefit them...

 

[Valley1320]

I think Outfitters and Tag Services optimize tag prices for the most money, not the land owner.
Most of the land owners I've seen get paid 1/3 to 1/4 of the price that the Outfitters then charge.
They seem to be pleased with the residual cash or have no idea what the max price is that they could get.


I know this isnt all, but a lot of the tags I see are your mom & pops, dont know anything better, and dont mind some cash flashed by Outfitters who then go crazy with it.

Again I am not saying you're wrong because you're around different parts of the state and probably have different experiences from me.

To your point though, the Hanks are a rare breed. I'm getting another unit 40 antelope tag this year for a 50K acre ranch that never gets hunted. This will be my third one. I am very lucky and this person giving it to me is the salt of the earth.

No your definitely right. I've seen it both ways like you said. The outfitters are the ones doing it the most. I do know a few LOs that are as well. But I gotta admit it's more Outfitters doing it. That's awesome on the antelope tag for you!

 

[Bighorner]

You missed the part where because of the program and habitat requirements and the incentive for having elk on the neighbors property that the herd is now twice the size so there are twice as many tags to go around

You missed the part where we do not have a elk population problem. Atleas least not an under population problem.

If you read the headlines, we have too many. We have an access problem. But in reality access is not horrible in most cases.

You hunt twice the elk, twice the tags and half the land and let me know how it goes for you.

Access decreases as the price to hunt and imaginary prestige of elk, deer, antelope, goes up.

 

[seeth07]

we have too many

by who's standards? The people polluting the landscape with garbage cattle and sheep? I don't think I've ever heard a hunter say there are too many <insert animal of choosing>. Wouldn't it be great if we could go back to 1800's level of wildlife in Wyoming? Bison would be as easy to find and pursue as a blue grouse.

 

[Bighorner]

by who's standards? The people polluting the landscape with garbage cattle and sheep? I don't think I've ever heard a hunter say there are too many <insert animal of choosing>. Wouldn't it be great if we could go back to 1800's level of wildlife in Wyoming? Bison would be as easy to find and pursue as a blue grouse.

You are kind of going off the rails. The majority of units are over objective for elk. That dosen't mean they are evenly spread across the land scape. It means the areas thay are accessible are hammered during hunting season. It sounds like high fence might be more your jam.

I take it your line of work does zero poluting, you only eat what you grew yourself in a zero carbon food plot and you wouldn't mind hitting a bison at 80 MPH one night in your toyota corola on I90.

I would rather have the 1800s human population if I had to choose.

 

[peterk1234]

If landowners want to generate income, couldn't they offer multi day leases on their land so people can recreate there? By recreate, I mean you have a tag and go hunt elk?

Get rid of the landowner tags, put them into to the general pool, and let those who can afford it pay a ridiculous user fee to a landowner to go hunt if they so choose.

 

[cgasner1]

Some quick math:
Wyoming 2025 elk application cost me $2014.13
$1950 that was held for about 4 months. My high interest savings account pays roughly 1.5% monthly = $1950 * 1.5/12 compounded = $9.77 lost interest.
2025 Elk PP cost = $53.30
Total 2025 out of pocket cost for a roughly 1/20 chance at an elk tag = $127.20.

Lets say this same hunt takes 12 points to draw by the time you do this for 12 years to earn 12 years of points which would mean applying for 13 years.
12 years of applying and failing = $127.20 * 12 = $1526.40.
13th year, $2014.13 app cost and securing the tag.
Total elk tag cost assuming by a miracle none of these prices increase over 13 years = $1526.40 + $2014.13 = $3540.53

That sure is an expensive elk tag for a slightly above average unit. The unit I referenced above in NM has had about a 1/20 chance to draw the tag the last few years. $4k is about the going rate - not the inflated huge money maker that everyone is making these tags out to be.

This example also shows that you would be taking 3540 dollars out of the agencies budget to manage the game. Times that by however many tags and that can cause a big issue

 

[Treeshark]

This example also shows that you would be taking 3540 dollars out of the agencies budget to manage the game. Times that by however many tags and that can cause a big issue

Tax every tag with proceeds of said tax going back to the agency. Problem solved.

 

[seeth07]

This example also shows that you would be taking 3540 dollars out of the agencies budget to manage the game. Times that by however many tags and that can cause a big issue

Less the amount of money that was in the 2.8mil damage fund.

 

[cgasner1]

Less the amount of money that was in the 2.8mil damage fund.

You don’t think this won’t be a cake and eat it to? Same amount of elk get killed will cause the same amount of problems and they will still want the money to fix things

 

[Archer86]

You don’t think this won’t be a cake and eat it to? Same amount of elk get killed will cause the same amount of problems and they will still want the money to fix things

They believe transferable landowner tags will magically fix everything and create no new issues.

They want to make NR hunting great again

 

[cgasner1]

They believe transferable landowner tags will magically fix everything and create no new issues.

They want to make NR hunting great again

Imagine knocking on a door asking to hunt the ranch they say no. Then offer you a 8k for elk tag that you can drive down that road about 30 miles to public and shoot any elk you’d like.

 

[seeth07]

You don’t think this won’t be a cake and eat it to? Same amount of elk get killed will cause the same amount of problems and they will still want the money to fix things

I guess you missed the part where I pointed out that the stipulation to receiving a LO tag should be forfeiting the alternate form of compensation in damage claims since you are now receiving your payment in another form.

 

[cgasner1]

I guess you missed the part where I pointed out that the stipulation to receiving a LO tag should be forfeiting the alternate form of compensation in damage claims since you are now receiving your payment in another form.

The next conversation is the elk aren’t here during season which is why we did unit wide. So since we can’t shoot the problem elk you still need to pay us