LO Battle Ahead?

[seeth07]

If it managed to get put into effect 95% of these tags will be sold to outfitters

Source? Have you ever really dug into NM or CO and what happens to those tags? You might be shocked at what you find.... @hank4elk where do your elk tags go?

 

[Treeshark]

This isn’t gonna be like scrolling thru Amazon and picking up an elk tag.

It is actually very similar to that.

I mean this as respectfully as possible: but a Google search for “landowner tags” would clear a lot of things up for you. I’m beginning to wonder if you actually have a better understanding than you’re letting on, and are purposely putting forth misinformation.

 

[rjthehunter]

20% of tags in Colorado go to landowners, many of whom don't support enough animals with their property to justify getting those tags. This is Colorado's system, and it limits the total tags that can go to landowners

Wyoming is planning to increase the minimum acreage necessary to apply for landowner tags, making it for very large landowners only.

Wyoming has no cap on their percentage of tags that can go to landowners.

Many high demand Wyoming units already have almost their entire nonresident quota going to nonresident landowners, despite there being plenty of public land in the unit. Some units also have significant portions of their resident quota going to landowners. Imagine if those landowner tags become transferable? DIY hunting will dwindle, making federal public lands "unnecessary."

Residents should probably get on this quick.

So the rich have already figured a way to get their tags every year then right?

What do most landowners do with their tags right now?

 

[seeth07]

What do most landowners do with their tags right now?

Should I answer this or actually let them do the digging and figure it out on their own?

 

[hank4elk]

Source? Have you ever really dug into NM or CO and what happens to those tags? You might be shocked at what you find.... @hank4elk where do your elk tags go?

I give them away or trade for help or firewood. I use one for myself if I don't draw.
I admit I am the odd man out here. I choose Ranch Only and decline offers of $.
Neighbors that choose Unit Wide maybe get 1 bull tag but take that $10,000-12,000 cash. Pretty sure they don't declare it.

 

[seeth07]

From the article:

"That includes organizations willing to help ranchers recoup losses for such things as forage eaten by wildlife and damage to ranch property, without requiring public access in return, she [Jess Johnson] said.

I have a pretty good idea of what crop damage payouts look like in WI regarding the elk herd in the Jackson County area. Can anyone provide some context or numbers to what it looks like in WY?

I'm very curious because the amount of a landowner elk tag wouldn't even remotely come close to what the crop damage payment that a WI farmer with 80 acres of corn gets. So if the law had a stipulation that if you receive landowner tags you no longer are eligible for damage payments it would remove concerns people have about the "landowners making big $$$ off of the wildlife"

 

[Treeshark]

So if the law had a stipulation that if you receive landowner tags you no longer are eligible for damage payments it would remove concerns people have about the "landowners making big $$$ off of the wildlife"

Interesting idea, I like it.

I think you’d see some of these grandiose damage claims go away pretty quickly in favor of a few transferable tags (which would beg the question how valid they were in the first place).

 

[rjthehunter]

Should I answer this or actually let them do the digging and figure it out on their own?

You should answer.

Right now, non-transferable landowner tags are a private benefit with public impact. There's just less opportunity for western hunters without tags being available to purchase.

Let's say theres 3,000 landowner elk tags being given out each year. That could potentially be 3,000 less people applying for tags every year. Reset preference points with the purchase of a landowner tags.

 

[rjthehunter]

From the article:

"That includes organizations willing to help ranchers recoup losses for such things as forage eaten by wildlife and damage to ranch property, without requiring public access in return, she [Jess Johnson] said.

I have a pretty good idea of what crop damage payouts look like in WI regarding the elk herd in the Jackson County area. Can anyone provide some context or numbers to what it looks like in WY?

I'm very curious because the amount of a landowner elk tag wouldn't even remotely come close to what the crop damage payment that a WI farmer with 80 acres of corn gets. So if the law had a stipulation that if you receive landowner tags you no longer are eligible for damage payments it would remove concerns people have about the "landowners making big $$$ off of the wildlife"

Isn't it $16 per elk harvested on their property through the "landowner coupon" program?

So to the state, an elk is worth $16?

 

[Treeshark]

Reset preference points with the purchase of a landowner tags.

This is a great idea.

 

[seeth07]

You should answer.

Right now, non-transferable landowner tags are a private benefit with public impact. There's just less opportunity for western hunters without tags being available to purchase.

Let's say theres 3,000 landowner elk tags being given out each year. That could potentially be 3,000 less people applying for tags every year. Reset preference points with the purchase of a landowner tags.

95% of them aren't being sold to the highest bidder. A lot go to family and friends or the landowner uses them themselves. In NM at least, there is a sizable portion that are directly sold to outfitters at a contracted price which if you do the math of what the outfitter is charging for the hunts, it is not a very large amount. Some quality outfitted hunts in NM are in the 6-12k range and obviously the outfitter has a lot of expenses and needs to still turn a profit so those tags are being sold to the outfitter for likely 3-6k?

 

[Treeshark]

95% of them aren't being sold to the highest bidder.

I suspect quite a few more are being sold to the highest bidder in Colorado than NM due to their single transfer rule (I know there are workarounds to that as well).

 

[wytex]

If LO get transferable tags they can do the outfitting themselves in Wyoming. They do not have top be licenses to outfit their own land.

Here's a report from 2022 I think: https://wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2023/05-202309112-01WGFDDamageSummaryFINALFY2022.pdf

 

[seeth07]

If LO get transferable tags they can do the outfitting themselves in Wyoming. They do not have top be licenses to outfit their own land.

Here's a report from 2022 I think: https://wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2023/05-202309112-01WGFDDamageSummaryFINALFY2022.pdf

Thanks for that.

So in 2022, average of $18,190 total cost per claim that came out of the budget. So wouldn't a program set with rules where it would instead reduce this cash flow coming out of the budget and instead put money into the budget be better? The sale of the LO tag could be directly handled by the state if they wanted (where they could collect a fee on the transaction) plus the LO needs to claim the payment on their taxes which would also put money back into the budget. Can also force the LO that they need to open their land up year round to public use. Lots of ways to turn this into something of benefit to the state and the people of the state to enjoy the wildlife.

 

[Hammsolo]

I haven’t, but I am fairly certain there are not 8 million people in Wyoming.

Well, let’s see where that goes. I chose Washington because that is where I live. There are about 600,000 people in Wyoming. To keep things simple we will say the tax payers still get 2 million dollars, and that 1/2 of the residents are over 18. This will drive the payout up for each individual. This leads to an absolute boom to each tax payer of $6.67.

 

[Bighorner]

Thanks for that.

So in 2022, average of $18,190 total cost per claim that came out of the budget. So wouldn't a program set with rules where it would instead reduce this cash flow coming out of the budget and instead put money into the budget be better? The sale of the LO tag could be directly handled by the state if they wanted (where they could collect a fee on the transaction) plus the LO needs to claim the payment on their taxes which would also put money back into the budget. Can also force the LO that they need to open their land up year round to public use. Lots of ways to turn this into something of benefit to the state and the people of the state to enjoy the wildlife.

Or we could just not sell the states wildlife to the highest bidder.

 

[Hammsolo]

95% of them aren't being sold to the highest bidder. A lot go to family and friends or the landowner uses them themselves. In NM at least, there is a sizable portion that are directly sold to outfitters at a contracted price which if you do the math of what the outfitter is charging for the hunts, it is not a very large amount. Some quality outfitted hunts in NM are in the 6-12k range and obviously the outfitter has a lot of expenses and needs to still turn a profit so those tags are being sold to the outfitter for likely 3-6k?

Another hunter on the sight reached out to me to see if I’d be interested on going on a New Mexico elk hunt. The tag cost was going to be $12,500. I shopped around for bull tags and this was pretty standard.

 

[Treeshark]

This leads to an absolute boom to each tax payer of $6.67.

Sweet- so let’s just call it a net neutral to residents financially with the upside of higher animal tolerance and increased land access.

What is the downside?

 

[Matthew57]

Since LO tags are so great, I’d love to hear what tags our friends have this year.

 

[Treeshark]

The tag cost was going to be $12,500. I shopped around for bull tags and this was pretty standard.

That’s on the high side for tag-only.