Less Access = Less People = Less Probability of getting Caught

[BuzzH]

cjcj, I agree with that, but the thing is, shooting an animal illegally is poaching. Yeah, they may be licensed, but they're still hunting in violation of the law. Thats poaching any way you slice it.

The people that ride their atv's and drive around all day road hunting have no intentions of getting out of the truck. They're the ones that will violate the law by shooting from a vehicle, fill a tag for their buddy/kids/wife, and so on because its easy, just like you said.

The guys that hike back into an area in the dark to reach an area at first light arent going to shoot from the vehicle they dont have, they arent going to fill their buddies tag either. Its a big pain in the ass to pack a critter 4-5 miles, there's just too much work involved. Its pretty easy to just poke a rifle out the window knowing in 10 minutes you can have the critter to your truck and your buddies/wifes/kids tag on it. Poachers are greedy, lazy, opportunitists who know that even on a main road their chances of getting caught are slim to none.

Ten beers just likes to hear himself talk.

 

[Erik in AK]

All: Can somebody talk to the F&G and see if they have good comparative numbers on poaching near roads vs in roadless areas? I'd ask the AK boys but we don't have any roads to speak of.

Ten Bears, are you being obtuse on purpose? Is your refusal to acknowledge that the rightness and/or wrongness of this issue is based on proportion or degrees, deliberate.

Why do you always seem to take the all-or-nothing approach to every discussion on access?Can you not reason that roads by their nature create opportunity to poach? I really don't get you.

You get us to agree that not all ATV'rs are criminals and presto! You claim there is no further justification for us to argue for restrictions an ATV use.

You get us to agree that poaching does take place in designated wilderness areas and presto! We're in the wrong for asserting that poaching is primarily a problem in roaded areas.

and please don't answer this post with this post, it's trite--try and think of something to say

 

[Ithaca 37]

Erik, "Ten Bears, are you being obtuse on purpose?"

Unfortunately, he's not. It's a complete waste of time trying to have a logical discussion with him. Plus, he enjoys getting people to waste their time answering his stupid posts. He thinks he wins if others waste their time answering him instead of doing something constructive.

 

[Oak]

Hey Ten Beers, where do you get off accusing someone you've never met of poaching? You should probably watch what you say about folks, you might not like where you find yourself. Find some facts before spouting accusations again...better yet, find a clue.

Ol' Ten Beers is just happy that someone is finally listening to him...even if they're doing it because they think he's a jackass. Kinda like the kid that misbehaves just so his parents will pay attention to him.

Oak

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

CJ,

The decoys are set up to catch "poachers", licensed or not. In Idaho, at least, you can not use a motorzized vehicle to hunt, and "hunt" is defined as locating game. Therefore, road hunting, and jumping off the side of the road to shoot the animal is illegal. Also, Idaho has passed a law that says it is illegal to shoot decoys placed by the Fish and Game. (Early cases were thrown out when it was argued the Fat-Assed ATV'r wasn't poaching, as it wasn't an animal, it was a decoy....)

 

[cjcj]

Most of what you said is true...however if someone is driving down the road... on their way to camp/or a canyon etc. and they see legal game ... then theyt can stop the truck get off of the road and shoot it... if they have the tag then its legal.... proving "intent" is very difficult. as "intentionally" road hunting. We see this alot during cow elk season... even though its just as easy to get out on the edge of a meadow 1/4 mile from the truck and kill a cow......some hunters are lazy and will drive around until they see a cow....alot of these same dorks come home empty handed... even the cows will run when the shooting starts and they see a truck coming.

 

[cjcj]

as far as decoys... somtimes the hunter keeps driving drops off another hunter around the corner sneaks back and shoot the decoy...My buddies in G&F have told me some funny ass stories... about hunters shooting the decoys... some hunters walking down the hill [not road hunting] see`s the decoy and shoots the hell out of it, blowing out the neck motor etc. before the "hidden" wardens can stop him.... rare but it happens.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Idaho Laws

YRH, I'm curious to those laws you are citing. Can you reference the actual code that states what you just said? Seems that the use of a window mounted spotting scope would get you in trouble? In Idaho, are you required to wear blaze orange when you are driving down the road, looking out your window? Just curious.

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

Greenhorn,

Here is the link...
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/hunt/rules/bg/info.pdf

Go to the bottom Left column of Page 13... 4th bullet point from the bottom.


Idaho further clarified "hunting" as locating when they did the ATV restrictions.

We don't have to wear Blaze Orange unless we want some road hunter to be able to lob shots at us from their Fat-Assed seat....

 

[The Hedgehog]

The "hunting" code is the one I was referring to...

Glad MT and WY don't classify, locating game as "hunting." About a million or so people in YNP would be cuffed and stuffed anually for hunting in the park.

Do Idaho antelope hunters glass from the vehicle, or do they all park, get out, walk a few yards and set up the tripod?

 

[cjcj]

Good pt. Greenhorn....can you see them arresting members of Bird watchers International.....I would hate to think that someone could be busted just for looking at game , because they are sitting in a truck.

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

Greenhorn,

A good road hunter doesn't need to use no stinkin' spotting scope on the window for 'lopes. He just shoots using the mirror for a rest (the late 70's Chevys work the best) and then drives over to the lope. If it ain't big enough, he just grabs another beer out of the cooler and keeps on driving....

I think the definition of "hunting" required a Tag, a Weapon, and an Open Season on the animal in question. The guys feeding Cheetos to the Elk in Jellystone aren't hunting, nor are they baiting (also illegal), they are merely putting some fat on the backstraps of your next bull....

 

[The Hedgehog]

So you're telling me that while BillyBob (with his trusty ought-six hangin in the gun rack and a license in his pocket) is driving to work, if he looks out the window and notices some deer (located them) he will be going down for road-hunting??

Sounds like some serious BS to me.

 

[Ten Bears]

My contention is that people who buy horses, work up loads for their firearms, teach hunters ed, take youngsters out hunting, scout, hike back in further, etc. are MUCH less likely to poach anywhere than some happy-jack riding down a road with a rifle and a twelve pack. More access leads to more poaching.I believe that those same people you have mentioned are more likely to "poach" because of their egos and expenses (investments).

I'll ask again, since you didnt answer the first time. If people who hunt remote areas poach as much as people who hunt off the road...why do wardens set up decoys near roads then? Why dont they use similar techniques to catch people who hunt in hard to access areas? Which group do they believe is poaching more? HMMMM??? Real tough question. Decoys are set up near roads because of the time invested in picking up opportunistic "dorks". I ask you, how much time and man power would it take to operate the same operation in the "outback"? Shooting from the road/vehicle is also a road safety issue. Which group do I think they think believe is poaching more? I think they all have different opinions about which group is poaching more based on where they work.

The guys that hike back into an area in the dark to reach an area at first light arent going to shoot from the vehicle they dont have, they arent going to fill their buddies tag either.I call BULL on that statment. Its a big pain in the ass to pack a critter 4-5 miles, there's just too much work involved. Its pretty easy to just poke a rifle out the window knowing in 10 minutes you can have the critter to your truck and your buddies/wifes/kids tag on it. I think it would also be pretty easy for backcountry poachers to poach an elk in the backcountry and tag it with anothers tag, and stand a lot less of a chance of being seen. Poachers are greedy, lazy, opportunitists who know that even on a main road their chances of getting caught are slim to none.Poachers are greedy and opportunistic no matter where they do their thing. Lazy, no, I doubt that. I don't think lazy people want to do to much of anything, let alone make work for themselves.

E-AK
Ten Bears, are you being obtuse on purpose? Is your refusal to acknowledge that the rightness and/or wrongness of this issue is based on proportion or degrees, deliberate. E-AK, I haven't denied or avoided the fact that there are "dorks" hunting/shooting/poaching from roads. On the contrary, "others" here seem to be unable to acknowledge the presence of poachers in the backcountry.

Why do you always seem to take the all-or-nothing approach to every discussion on access? I really don't get you.I disagree that I always take the all or nothing approach to access issues. On many cases I have argued for limited access over restricted access. Can you show where I have claimed the ATVs should be allowed everywhere? Can you not reason that roads by their nature create opportunity to poach? Again, I have not argued that they don't, but I do argue that restricted access does not, has not, will not rid us of poaching either.

OAK:
Hey Ten Beers, where do you get off accusing someone you've never met of poaching? Show where I accused anybody of poaching (other then asking MATTy if he was confessing to something). You should probably watch what you say about folks, you might not like where you find yourself. Where might I find myself? Are you gonna post some baseless threats at me as well. Find some facts before spouting accusations again...better yet, find a clue. I have been posting some facts, for those smart enough to figure it out.

Ol' Ten Beers is just happy that someone is finally listening to him...even if they're doing it because they think he's a jackass. Kinda like the kid that misbehaves just so his parents will pay attention to him. I question many here's know-it-all attitude, and I guess when you-all feel challenged you first response is to threaten to kick the ass of those thatquestion you. Bring IT.

 

[Ten Bears]

So you're telling me that while BillyBob (with his trusty ought-six hangin in the gun rack and a license in his pocket) is driving to work, if he looks out the window and notices some deer (located them) he will be going down for road-hunting??

Sounds like some serious BS to me.

GH, I don't think they (even the great YRH) could make it stick if Bill-Bob got outta his truck and got off the road and shot the deer, as long as the deer season was open, it was daylight hours, and he was on public land.

 

[BuzzH]

Ten beers,

Everyone else is wrong, and you're right.

I like seeing your weak attempts at "proving" your points. HAHA.

What an assclown.

 

[Ten Bears]

Like I said BUZZ, "Less Access = Less People = Less Probability of getting Caught." Isn't that what you've found?

You claim that those that "pack in" have too much at stake (time, reputation, investment,..) to poach, and I contest that because they have so much at stake (time, reputation/ego, investment), they do just that, poach, in order to maintain their "status."

You claim that the f&g focuses their work around roads because thats where all the poaching takes place, and I contest that they focus around the roads because that is the easiest place to work with multiple inforcement people for a short period of time, and then they can break up and move (mobility). I heard some guys "beotching" at the sportsmans breakfast a couple of months ago (at first I thought it might have been you) about this game officer that showed up at their backcountry camp last fall. Seems they didn't like him being in the backcountry area, and thought he needed to be focused out near the roads, too.

BUZZ, how often do you hunt the Frank Church? You make reference to it quite a bit.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Ten, Buzz is right about you being an assclown. I never heard the term before, but if fits you perfectly.

 

[Ten Bears]

Ten beers,

I like seeing your weak attempts at "proving" your points. HAHA. What have you or IT done to support your point? You still planning your trip up here to kick my arse? Bring IT with you.

What an assclown. I wont stoop to your childish levels, nor yours IT.

 

[ELKCHSR]

That was a well stated post Ten, and very much to the point.
I see the argument is very valid, it is in our nature to do things we aren’t supposed to, especially if we are far away from prying eyes.
While I see it as a probable bother to have a warden show up at my camp way back in the toolies, it is also some thing that I would see as a very positive thing knowing these guys are doing the job we are paying them for and not taking the easy way out by just hanging around the roads.
I know if I was a warden, I would be inclined to hit the areas that I know cheating is almost taken for granted. To ensure the people that have paid the money and are doing it right are also getting that experience they are entitled to.