Lead fragments in hunter harvested deer

[schmalts]

I went to copper on my main hunting rifle, 300WSM a decade ago. I have however seen a few bullets on the far side with minimal expansion, but still killed the deer. If and when I run out of lead, I will try and switch on the couple other guns I use for filling the freezer. Dead is dead, lead or copper.

 

[np307]

BRO uploaded a video today or yesterday about this very subject. Some of the youtube comments are pretty "interesting"....

 

[BWALKER77]

Got a link?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Got a link?

This is what I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y796BmDsAeQ

 

[Power54]

In my neck of the woods in Comiefornia we were FORCED to use copper bullets years ago for the condors and now because of the raptors the rest of the state will belong for the ride within two years. Personally if I could go back to shooting traditional ammunition I would do it in a New York minute. I feel copper bullets don't expand enough and shoot way different than traditional ammo which requires trying different brands of ammunition to see which shoots the best out your gun..However that's easier said than done as the majority of sporting good stores have a very limited selection of lead free ammunition and to top it off the new gun laws prohibit a person from ordering ammunition online unless its through an FFL further adding insult to injury!!!

It's beyond messed up that you can't order ammo online. I feel for you on that. But, those of us that haven't been forced to use non-lead generally don't experience the same overwhelming negatives reported from the good folks of CA. I'm glad that I have a choice but I will still choose non-lead every day over lead for multiple reasons including but not limited to superior performance (in my 12 years of using copper) and because there's a 0% chance the gutpile I leave behind will kill our national symbol.

 

[ScottP]

Some points for you to ponder:
1. The fragemnts you can't see, can travel upwards of 20" from the entrance. You can't trim all that out.
2. Any amount of lead ingested is bad.
3. A full grown adult is not as susceptible to your young child who is fed venison harvested with lead bullletts, over several years.
4. There have been studies (WV and MI, I believe) that measured lead levels in hunters vs general public and its not been appreciatively larger. Take that for what its worth.


Personally, I switched after I went on a raptor study were we caught eagles and Buteos and they all had lead in their systems. As a falconer, that got me on the path to lead free.

If you really want to know more, you should look into: Ingestion of Lead from Spent
Ammunition.

I agree with Chris Parrish that we are better of self-regulating and encouraging other hunters to make the switch on their own. But if we are truly going to champion the title and cause of conservationist, I don't see how you don't make the switch to lead-free.

Spot on. I wish every hunter would read this thread and your comments.

 

[ScottP]

I went to copper on my main hunting rifle, 300WSM a decade ago. I have however seen a few bullets on the far side with minimal expansion, but still killed the deer. If and when I run out of lead, I will try and switch on the couple other guns I use for filling the freezer. Dead is dead, lead or copper.

Have you tried Hornady GMX? I had one of my TTSX do as you described, but none of the recovered GMXs have been anything but perfect.

 

[Rifles And More]

The issue is intriguing and honestly scares me, both as a health issue and as tool against sportsmen.

I would encourage everyone to look up the following donors and dig deeper:
The Charles Engelhard Foundation, Liz Claiborne and Art Ortenberg Foundation, Nina Mason Pulliam Charitable Trust, Grand Canyon Conservation Fund, National Fish and Wildlife Foundation, Jane Smith Turner Foundation

As of yet I have not made a decision on my stance and continue to use lead based hunting bullets. This thread and the BRO video made me look-up some copper bullets to try.

-Dustin

 

[119bowhunter]

I have yet to fire a solid copper bullet myself, but after listening to Randy's latest podcast I ordered a box of federal trophy coppers to try in my 30-06, if they are accurate enough I will be hunting with them this year.

 

[ErictheRed]

I had no idea about lead in my venison. I’ll be switching. Glad for pod casts. Learning a ton on Randy’s and others about conservation science and how to apply it. Thanks Randy.

 

[JTHOMP]

Give Bismuth a try! It's closer to the density of lead than steel. I used it last fall in Iowa on pheasants and was happy with it. It's not lead cheap, but not super non-toxic expensive either.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/KENT-BISMUTH-SHOTSHELLS-PER-BOX/2263462.uts

That's really not a bad price....until I realized they come in boxes of 10 shells not 25 shells. Going to put the credit card back back in my wallet for now lol

 

[1_pointer]

That's really not a bad price....until I realized they come in boxes of 10 shells not 25 shells. Going to put the credit card back back in my wallet for now lol

Yes, some steel is cheaper, but this works so well that I'll continue to use it for certain applications. Regular or plated lead will still get the bulk of my use for small game (mostly squirrels).

 

[3855WIN]

I'm wondering why we don't hear of ravens being effected by lead poisoning. These birds clean and consume the majority of the gut piles here around the Great Lakes. You will often see 30 or more of these birds at a kill site and have the whole mess cleaned up within a day. I have never found or heard of mortality caused by lead. Any thoughts?

Ravens aren’t being used as a tool to stop hunting.

 

[3855WIN]

I switched to all copper last season and the one buck I shot with copper didn't take many more steps.

There has been some interesting research done over the last few years that suggests that leaded gasoline plays(ed) a strong role in violent behavior in young people reflected in the violent crime rate. As leaded gasoline was phased out, many countries, including the US, experienced a drop in the rate of violent crime ~20 years later as children-->adolescents with low concentrations of blood lead.

Lead is pretty toxic stuff.

Interesting.

 

[mtmiller]

Ravens aren’t being used as a tool to stop hunting.

Pencil in "Mississippi" to my list.

 

[scubohuntr]

I'm wondering why we don't hear of ravens being effected by lead poisoning. These birds clean and consume the majority of the gut piles here around the Great Lakes. You will often see 30 or more of these birds at a kill site and have the whole mess cleaned up within a day. I have never found or heard of mortality caused by lead. Any thoughts?

Mostly because ravens don't each have their own babysitter and GPS tracker, I suspect. If a condor dies, someone knows about it. Ravens can just fly off and croak (ha!) and nobody will know. They are also smaller birds, so don't consume as much from a single kill, and eat a lot more roadkill and general trash than condors do, so they get more dilution.

 

[BWALKER77]

CA condor aside are raptors really endangered by lead bullets? I would say no.

 

[VikingsGuy]

CA condor aside are raptors really endangered by lead bullets? I would say no.

Do not take this wrong, it is a sincere question - on what objective evidence do you draw this conclusion?

 

[BWALKER77]

Interesting.

Its also important not to use the " ive been eating game meat for years with no ill effects". The fact is you dont know and the fact is if you fed it to your young kids you most certainly did effect their cognative ability.

 

[JohnCushman]

How about this for a semi-voluntary solution . . .

States issue two different hunting licenses (a) traditional and (b) lead-free; the hunter is free to choose between them each season/tag. The only differences are that (i) the lead-free license/tag is $25 cheaper (shifting the cost of premium copper vs traditional lead to the public who benefits), and (ii) only a lead-free license allows the hunter to leave the carcass/gut pile in the field. No more lead in the carcass/gut piles so birds are safe, less whining about "expensive ammo", and folks can transition over at their leisure. I understand that having to take carcass out is a burden in some situations, but so is leaving lead in the food chain - each hunter would get to choose how to solve the problem for themselves.

How high or drunk were you when you wrote this? Can you go back and read this with a straight face?