Latest APR. SENT TO me by a friend

[BuzzH]

Another hunter and I literally just had a conversation about APR yesterday.

Who has the biggest single financial interest in APR? I am not talking a collective of many smallish donors. I am talking about the individual or investment group with the largest single stake. Where else does said individual/investment group spend their money on political candidates, political campaigns, and lobbying efforts etc?

There seem to be a lot of individuals, groups, and/or elected officials who appear on the surface to be pro public land, pro conservation, and pro hunting but yet looking at where their money and efforts go combined with who their financial alliances are shows something different. Is APR one of them?

So much easily accessible information...and so little effort put in to discover the facts.

But, I get it, bar stool talk, rumors, and flat nonsense is even easier to find.

Just sayin'

Financials

americanprairie.org

 

[Straight Arrow]

He is the only one I want to hear from regarding anything APR. Glad he is here. mtmuley

"I have lead much of the research work for Smithsonian on the AP landscape since 2018. If someone wants to put questions together, I'll answer them. -andy" OlWhitcombPlace

Yes, he has boots on the ground factual science based information as someone professionally involved in the Smithsonian collaborative work on and with AP. He is a very credible source of information and professional perspectives. Hopefully he will chime in here.

 

[mtmuley]

"I have lead much of the research work for Smithsonian on the AP landscape since 2018. If someone wants to put questions together, I'll answer them. -andy" OlWhitcombPlace

Yes, he has boots on the ground factual science based information as someone professionally involved in the Smithsonian collaborative work on and with AP. He is a very credible source of information and professional perspectives. Hopefully he will chime in here.

I know. Exactly why I listen to his input. Among other reasons. mtmuley

 

[SAJ-99]

Earthjustice is a legal organization. The only way you get anything with this administration is to lawyer up and APR probably doesn’t feel it has the legal capacity on staff to push back in appeal. The partnership makes sense. If your views are already set, this news certainly gives you something to lean on. But you probably weren’t donating to APR anyway. If you are open minded, this shouldn’t surprise you at all.

 

[DFS]

So much easily accessible information...and so little effort put in to discover the facts.

But, I get it, bar stool talk, rumors, and flat nonsense is even easier to find.

Just sayin'

Financials

americanprairie.org

I’m educating myself buzz.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Let me see if I am tracking the progress of events here…

1. AP uses the MT Department of Ag’s definition of private bison herds as livestock to graze bison on their BLM leases.
2. Opponents of AP use political influence to change the grazing that BLM had allowed to happen previously to ban bison from grazing on BLM leases.
3. AP partners with Earth Justice to fight to regain the legal right to graze their livestock on the grazing leases they have with BLM.
4. Opponents of AP complain that this shows AP’s true colors as being untrustworthy because Earth Justice has represented anti-hunting interests in the past.

Did anyone think to criticize the interests that put AP in this position to have to defend themselves legally?

This is like a bully punching a kid in the face and then complaining that his big brother who comes to his aid is too big and mean and it isn’t fair…

 

[DFS]

Let me see if I am tracking the progress of events here…

1. AP uses the MT Department of Ag’s definition of private bison herds as livestock to graze bison on their BLM leases.
2. Opponents of AP use political influence to change the grazing that BLM had allowed to happen previously to ban bison from grazing on BLM leases.
3. AP partners with Earth Justice to fight to regain the legal right to graze their livestock on the grazing leases they have with BLM.
4. Opponents of AP complain that this shows AP’s true colors as being untrustworthy because Earth Justice has represented anti-hunting interests in the past.

Did anyone think to criticize the interests that put AP in this position to have to defend themselves legally?

This is like a bully punching a kid in the face and then complaining that his big brother who comes to his aid is too big and mean and it isn’t fair…

If they can keep bison in without the fences that straight arrow showed us I have to agree with you.

 

[Straight Arrow]

View attachment 400978
I’m educating myself buzz.

Educating yourself is admirable, but merely a common sense, rationale approach to any issue. However, it your take-away is naively thinking that successful non-profit organizations and meaningful conservation efforts are NOT funded mostly by deep-pocket donors ... then your attempt at rationale thinking is very skewed by your personally negative bias, not by factual information.

 

[Straight Arrow]

If they can keep bison in without the fences that straight arrow showed us I have to agree with you.

!. There are negligible problems with bison crossing fences and creating damage anywhere in Montana. (Escaping, marauding bison is just anther conjured-up, fear mongering myth.)
2. OlWhitcombPlace, who has experience as an objective Smithsonian professional working on and with AP, has described the wildlife friendly fences used by AP.

Your opinion and my opinion about fences has zero to do with this BLM grazing debacle.

 

[SAJ-99]

View attachment 400978
I’m educating myself buzz.

And what is your concern? Rich people donate to restore native short grass prairie ecosystem. Shocker- not. If you want me to be surprise, let's see a gofundme to restore native shortgrass prairie and see how much it raises.
The Koch brothers and Tech oligarchs spend millions through PACs to influence laws and regulations for their benefit, often for things that will eventually destroy the land, but you are trying to convince us the concern should really be about the rich trying to preserve and restore? I can't follow the logic.

 

[DFS]

!. There are negligible problems with bison crossing fences and creating damage anywhere in Montana. (Escaping, marauding bison is just anther conjured-up, fear mongering myth.)
2. OlWhitcombPlace, who has experience as an objective Smithsonian professional working on and with AP, has described the wildlife friendly fences used by AP.

Your opinion and my opinion about fences has zero to do with this BLM grazing debacle.

I have a personal picture of a dead bison that came from South Dakota. So #1 is not a myth.
The opinions do matter especially when they are being forced on people. My stance won’t change, keep things the way they are/were so in that aspect I have warmed up to APR even though the wealthy donors will likely pull the carpet out on you for hunting access. It all ties together.

 

[Nameless Range]

I am pro APR and think the revocation of their grazing permits was BS.

I don’t fully understand the law or what’s happening ( at a wrestling tournament and not going to dig deep right now) but I will say a good way to paint yourself into a corner in this State that you will never get out of would be to join forces with EarthJustice. Not sure if that’s what’s happening here, but EJ are chiefly a bunch of anti-management, be it land or wildlife, goofballs.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I have a personal picture of a dead bison that came from South Dakota. So #1 is not a myth.

Yes, it is argumentative ... however, a one-guy's personal picture of a dead bison outside the fence does not refute "negligible problems" in Montana. Certainly bison have crossed out of fenced areas on occasion ... but I still assert that escaping, marauding bison is just anther conjured-up, fear mongering myth. It is not an issue even worth this debate.

 

[Wildabeest]

If I were going to battle the government on a conservation related issue, I’d want a legal team that has deep experience doing just that. To me, this seems like a pragmatic decision on the part of AP to give them the best chance of winning their case, not some broader shift in their stance on hunting and access. But conspiracy theorists must theorize…

 

[mtmuley]

Still waiting for @OlWhitcombPlace. The rest is just noise at this point. mtmuley

 

[Straight Arrow]

Still waiting for @OlWhitcombPlace.

Me too. However, I think he may opt to avoid politically oriented discussions such as this one regarding the BLM grazing issue. He impresses me as a very professional, science based individual who prefers to express perspectives based only on science, truth, factual information and reality.

 

[mtmuley]

Me too. However, I think he may opt to avoid politically oriented discussions such as this one regarding the BLM grazing issue. He impresses me as a very professional, science based individual who prefers to express perspectives based only on science, truth, factual information and reality.

Yes. Exactly why I want to hear his perspective. And not anyone else's. Understand? He can PM me. Might work out better. mtmuley

 

[Straight Arrow]

Yes. Exactly why I want to hear his perspective. And not anyone else's. Understand? mtmuley

Yes, and likely after the years of research, analysis, and relationships with the flora, fauna, AP personnel, and with that vast wonderful Montana landscape ... he personally would be an advocate for AP's position regarding bison grazing on BLM permits. However, as a professional of objective integrity, he may not post here.
But, as you expressed, that is why his perspective would be important.

 

[SAJ-99]

I will say a good way to paint yourself into a corner in this State that you will never get out of would be to join forces with EarthJustice. Not sure if that’s what’s happening here, but EJ are chiefly a bunch of anti-management, be it land or wildlife, goofballs.

Those goofballs, along with the Western Environmental Law Center, are leading the charge in the courts for the protection of the environment. They represent a variety of organizations you may support (or at least think are not goofballs) in various cases. I get that any individual may not agree with every case they fight. I certainly don't. Reasonable people can disagree, and politics makes strange bedfellows (yes, we all know this is political). Montanans that punish the APR or anything else because of a bias against the legal firm making the fight seems like a great plan for losing. If someone wants to create a legal firm that pays the staff meager wages for a ton of work that will only represent their specific interest, I will applaud the effort.

 

[mtmuley]

Yes, and likely after the years of research, analysis, and relationships with the flora, fauna, AP personnel, and with that vast wonderful Montana landscape ... he personally would be an advocate for AP's position regarding bison grazing on BLM permits. However, as a professional of objective integrity, he may not post here.
But, as you expressed, that is why his perspective would be important.

I'll try to PM him and avoid the noise. mtmuley